Raising Industry Standards with Vicky Skinner from the Animal Focused Alliance

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Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business. This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more. So without further ado, let's get going.

Right. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to this next episode of our podcast. And today we are joined by Vicky from the Animal Focused Alliance. Welcome, Vicky. Thank you very much for having me. You're welcome. We. We caught up with each other at the Pet Pro Expo. Did you enjoy the Pet Pro Expo? It was honestly amazing. I think the mixture of people that was there, the atmosphere that Vicki and her team created was just really empowering. Everybody was open, everybody was engaging, everybody was captivated by the speakers and came away just fill us so many ideas.

It really was an incredible event. Yeah. I was watching your real. I was scrolling through your Facebook page earlier just to get my mind around what your. What you offer and what you do. And I was, I was watching your real. As you went, you sort of had the Pet Pro Expo booklet and you were going, what did you learn from each. From each seminar? And it was like there's something from each, wasn't there that you could tell you, Diane. It's definitely.

I feel as though it's been like it's a missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle for pet professionals, the business side of things. Yeah. And a mixture of pet professionals. You know, there's a lot of stuff out there for groomers, there's some stuff out there for dog trainers, less so for some of the other sectors. But actually, because this is open to all pet professionals, the range, the ideas, the way people mix, there was no sort of, you're my competition, I can't speak to you sort of thing.

It was just really supportive. Yeah. I did a seminar this weekend actually at Greenforia and there was a dog. There was a lady in there that was a dog walker. And you know, I was talking to her about, well, you can cross sell teeth cleaning and stuff like pet groomers do teeth cleaning. You could potentially set that up for your dog walking clients as well. She's like, oh, yeah, you know. Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? And like I said, I think it is a was or is and hopefully it will continue.

But the missing piece to. For pet professionals. So you were there as the sponsor, one of the sponsors of the show. We wear one of those bonuses. Yeah. Excellent. And so we're here today to discuss the Animal Focused Alliance. And it was the first time I recognized you. I don't know if we've bumped into each other at other. Other work workshops or trade shows, but, you know, let's hear about your new venture, the Animal Focused Alliance.

So we are very new. We were set up, and in May time, really, with the aim of supporting pet businesses to raise standards, whether that be standards within their business and how they're running their business professionally and ethically, but also the animal welfare standards. There's lots of advice out there, there's lots of support groups out there, and what we want to do is sort of bring together all of those bits to give something that is consistent and factually based. So we've done a lot of work historically with animal licensing officers, and because of that, we were able to get a primary authority partnership set up for both England and Wales.

And what that means is that if you are a licensed pet business, so a homeboarder, a dog daycare provider, not a groomer or a dog walker yet, but any of those licensed businesses, and you're having concerns about your license, questions about your license, you're not sure if you've been given the right advice or you've been asked for something that you've never been asked for before. We can take that to our primary authority partners and they give us assured advice which is then legally binding. So that is the advice that your local authority then has to follow.

So that gives us a consistent grounding for any license and queries. It's not my opinion, you know, this is not me saying this is what's happening. This is coming from local authorities who are offering assured, legally binding advice. So it gives that factual evidence. Because we're connected with the local authorities and we're on the companion animal sector group. We're getting the information that's coming really as directly as we can from what's actually happening at government. There's lots of discussions, there's lots of forums, there's lots of campaigning about where licensing and regulation is going, where welfare's going.

But actually the information we are getting and that we're passing down is as close to the top as we can get it. We're not passing judgment, we're not saying this is what should happen, this is what shouldn't happen. We will put out consultations to our members to gauge their opinion, but our job is to put the facts out there. Maybe animal welfare facts, but it may be changes to GDPR legislation and changes to employment rights legislation, all of those things. As a sole trader in particular, you miss out on, you know, if you're working for pets at home or one of those much larger companies, you get all the updates, you know, the HR updates, the compliance updates, health and safety updates.

If you're a sole trader, where are you getting that information? You're relying on it coming through a Facebook feed or you know, chatgpt telling you when you're asking for an update or something. So part of what we do is actually just keeping people current. Yeah. And that's really important, isn't it? Because you know, running a business is becoming harder and harder and more. More and more legislation affects us more and more updates, there's more responsibilities put on us as business owners, whether it's sole traders or employers, you know, so like you said, how do we keep ourselves updated and where do we go to to believe what we're being told as well?

Because there's so many sources of information out there, speculation, opinion, you know, fake news. If we go down the Donald Trump route, you know. So what kind of was that one of the drivers to what made you set up the association? Yeah, I mean I think everybody when you. So I ran Animal Focused, not the alliance, but Animal Focused for two years prior to setting up the alliance and I was there doing some cunine assisted therapy work, doing some education and training and quality assurance work. But it was sort of me and the dog in the office and it can be quite isolating.

And you're so overwhelmed by doing the day to day stuff, the hands on stuff with the animals that actually you're not even necessarily looking for the other bits until you know, somebody puts on Facebook that they've been pulled up for X, Y or Z or this has just happened to them or and you start to think actually, you know, should I be aware of that? And quite often you don't know what you don't know until it's too late. And unfortunately in the eyes of the law, ignorance is not an excuse.

If you're running a business, you're supposed to know all of these things. So really what we want to do is support, you know, those people who were me a couple of years ago, they sat in their grooming salon, you know, in their dog walking field more or less by themselves. And we want to make them feel not that they're part of a corporate organization because that's really not our vibe at all, but that they've got that support and guidance behind them. I remember when we started our pet grooming business and I think this is quite common for a lot of people.

We had employees, we had.

Apprentices and had employees. And I remember like turning to the accountant for our HR contract, you know, why do we go to an accountant for an employment contract? You know, and it's probably just something that he had that was probably passed to him from someone else, you know, and we just, because it came from a professional, we kind of must have just trusted it. And it was probably quite a few years later that we, you know, we, we had our problems with employees and ups and downs and you know, we always had this kind of like, well, is what we've done right?

You know, is it legally binding? Are we going to get into trouble? And it wasn't until we kind of, I suppose professionalized ourselves and then started to, you know, take on HR advice and took on a HR professional into our business. And my wife Emma, who was the main like running that business was like such a big weight come off her shoulders having that help and support there. Yeah, but I think you probably know being a business owner yourself and working with other business owners, we all tend to try and do everything ourselves, don't we?

Yeah. So when I set up Animal Focused, the only thing I knew I was sort of outsourcing was my account. So I do my own sort of bookkeeping but actually the end of year accounts I am not involved in. It's too complicated, it's too risky. If you get it wrong, therefore, you know, here you go, somebody else can do that and I'm more than happy to pay for that service. If you are an employer then actually suddenly all of these employee right things are equally as important as getting that accounts right.

Because if you get it wrong, the consequences are great.

So one of the benefits that we're able to offer our members is a free legal advice line from Krona. And actually what they will do, and I've had the conversation with them is everybody uses ChatGPT now. Write me a policy on. Write me a procedure on. Write me a contract on actually and they will take that and look over it and just check that actually you're saying what you wanted to say and in a way that is.

Yeah, within the law that's quite important. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean I've been guilty of it of it myself for. So we are licensed to do the canine assisted therapy stuff and you've got to have a policy on this and the procedures for that and a policy on this and actually.

I've chat GPT and you end up writing a policy for the sake of writing it, not because it's one that actually reflects what you do. And I think there's having that support in place to say, right, actually, this doesn't need to be complicated. We just need a step by step guide to what you would do when imagine something terrible happened, you were hit by a bus tomorrow, somebody needs to be able to come in and follow your instructions. That's all we're asking. But because we call it a policy or a procedure, everybody panics about it.

Yeah, I mean, exactly the same with like health and safety. If Emma says, can you write us a health and safety policy? I'm just like, yawn. Oh my God, I can't get my head around this. So Emma loves it, she loves doing all the health and safety, which is. Great because that's exactly what you want, somebody who really enjoys doing it. But all too often we sort of, we do it because we have to and don't really think about, well, actually, you know, what would I do if this happened?

What is the procedure? You know, if you're a mobile groomer or you're picking up dogs for grooming, for daycare, for whatever. Actually, have you thought about what would happen if you have a breakdown and you're stuck for four or five hours in freezing cold temperatures or roasting hot temperatures? Have you considered who you're going to call that is actually able to come and assist you and take these animals? You know, quite often dog walkers in particular, do you have enough leads in your vehicle for all of those dogs to be removed at the same time?

And it's actually when you start to break down all these policies and procedures, they're really helpful and really beneficial, but all too often we're so busy panicking about doing the day to day stuff that those policies and procedures are just a hassle that we need to do as quickly as possible and get it off the to do list. I always think something that we used to use at work when I was in the police was like the smoking gun backwards sort of thing. What would people say looking at it from the outside in?

And I always think, what would the Daily Mail headline be? You know, if something went wrong, what would the Daily Mail write about you? So, yeah, interesting, like, like you said, like, if you're a dog walker and you're out in a van, have you got enough leads? If that, that one lead snaps or a dog chews through it, have you got an extra couple of leads? Because you might come across stray dogs, you know, and you. And people look at you as a professional going, well, you're a dog walker, you should be Able to cope with this, you should be able to do, you know, and something that we thought in our salon, we have a dog grooming salon with multiple, multiple dogs in there.

At any one time we're thinking about the fire risk assessment and stuff like that. And obviously people will think about humans, but we also had to think about the animals in our care. So we had to write the policies around that. And it was just simple things like we had hooks on the walls and we bought red slip leads and those red slip leads would sit on the walls on those hooks and they were designated for, you know, in case of a fire or emergency. The plan was to get every dog onto a red slip lead.

They're all there to hand. They weren't like out in use or stuck in the car or stuff like that. And we could take them out sort of things. Yeah, you know, Daily Mail headline, you know, fire breaks out in dog groomers. They saved everyone. Yeah. But the difficulty with that is actually as an employer, can you then say to somebody actually, well, yeah, that part of the policy, and this is the kind of thing actually, let's just get these policies checked over to make sure that actually you've not got some poor 16 year old child thinking I need to go back into this.

The situation is horrible. But it's about having those policies and processes in place. Now I worked at a college where it was sort of you take with you what you can. So you know, if you're in a room, you know, with the dogs, with the rabbits, with whatever, you take with you what you can but you leave immediately. Yeah. And it's, it's having that balance, isn't it? Because none of us would like, you know, the worst happens and something goes horribly wrong.

But actually we have to prioritize our safety at that point, especially if you're an employer, you have to prioritize your, your employees safety. So it's a really fine balance when you're working with animals and because none of us would like to think that we would leave any animal behind. This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay. Low pay is half the price of sum up and zettle. So you keep more of the money that you earn. Rates start at 0.79%. Fido got out but the apprentice didn't. Yeah, and this is, it's often the way.

But this, this could be like dog walkers as well. If they're walking their dogs along canals and streams and rivers and stuff like that. If the dog jumps in, because we see this a lot in the headlines, don't we? Where the Labrador gets out the sea but the owner doesn't because they go in to rescue the lab. I know a dog walker who it's happened to, who they were walking along.

By the side of what is usually quite a slow moving river.

And the dog, did it jump in or did it fall in? I can't quite remember. But it got washed away quite quickly because it's quite fast flowing. And they ran down the banking, jumped in and as they jumped in the dog jumped out and you're like, was. It a Saint Bernard? Did it go and rescue the dog walker? No, I think it just did look a little bit confused. But that, you know, that all ended fine, thankfully. But actually it's about thinking through. So we do some stuff with lone working in particular for dog walkers because those are the kind of things that while you can't plan for every eventuality, actually having an idea of what you would do and how you would prioritize your time and actually, does somebody know where you are?

You know, if they got swept down to sea, how long would it take for somebody to notice that their dog wasn't back or they hadn't come home for their tea? So it's about having this important place to think through these things and consider what you would do and how you are working as safely as possible. Yeah, I discussed this actually with. Well, yeah, we had a lone worker policy and it was always to keep the door locked, et cetera, when staff were in there on their own.

But I also discussed this with mobile dog groomers that I work with because potentially they could have some real big dogs in there that. And we don't. Dogs are, dogs are dogs, aren't they? We don't know what might upset them or what might freak them out or you know, if it's a dog that has never met before and they're stuck in this like place that's even smaller than my office, you know, with a sliding door. And if that dog gets between them and the door, how do they get out?

And it's things like that to that. They also those mobile rumors are going into other people's houses. So relatively vulnerable place situation to put yourself in. And actually again, have you considered where you're going is, you know, do you have a list that's left at home that says this is where I'm stopping each day, you know, at each time, you know, do you have your Google Maps or whatever tracking your phone so that you know where you are? Because actually as a dog walker, as a somebody who collects for dog daycare as a motor groomer.

Yeah. You are putting yourself at risk every time you go into another house. But the flip side of that is you may be going into the house with a vulnerable person and, you know, there's the safeguarding from both sides.

It's a tightrope, isn't it? Yes. And this is the kind of thing that motivated you to set this up, to help people with all of this? Yeah, I mean, I think I, so my background is education, so I worked at college for a long time and you know, you'll have seen it with agreement qualifications, there's a big focus on health and safety and doing things right. But it's quite controlled in the way that's taught. Actually what people need to know is how this all applies, you know, in the real life environment.

And I think pet professionals are so focused on doing what's best for the animals in their care, they sometimes forget about doing what's best for them and their business. And actually by supporting them we're able to raise standards across everything. Yeah. And sort of putting them first. And you know, I, I, I did a seminar over the weekend about, you know, pricing and business and it, it is about putting yourself thinking about yourself at first as well, sometimes when it comes to business, but also when it comes to your welfare.

If you sort yourself out, you can then sort everything else out as well. Yeah. And I think just having somewhere to turn. So sometimes the worst of it is feeling overwhelmed and not knowing where to get the answers and how to move things forward and, and actually sometimes just having somebody to talk it through with, you know, whether it be myself and Michelle in the office, whether it be the Corona people, whether it be in some of the other experts that we work with, then actually you don't feel so alone and so overwhelmed by it.

Yeah, yeah. Let's couldn't go back to. Obviously you've, like you said you sit on some of the boards. What was it? The canine felines. So we are on companion animal sector group and we are on the Scottish Cross Party animal welfare group, Canine V Line sector group. Asked me in a couple of weeks that's may or may not go, not go anywhere. Yes, hopefully. So, yeah. So basically they are organizations that are affiliated to the government. They are providing the advice and guidance.

That helps shape policies, that helps put together guidelines. Groomers guidelines came out more or less as we launched actually that must have been June time, which is a canine feline sector group document about best practice for groomers. There were some bits in there we may or may not agree with. That's a whole other conversation. But that's come in effectively from those people at the top that are working with a number of organizations, ranges from charities to individuals who are very much focused on animal welfare and provides that guidance but like I say, also helps shape, shape policies.

So at the moment one of the things that's likely to be looked at in terms of licensing next is animal charities and animal rescues. And that is sort of in Wales and in England where the conversation is currently happening at the moment, albeit is only a conversation. And actually what will happen is groups like Companion Animal Sector Group will feed into how those regulations and ideas develop. There'll be a consultation, we'll be able to put forward our members thoughts and feelings for that. What I would say as a caveat to that is two things.

One, all legislation takes a long time to move forward. Just because they're talking about it now does not mean licensing is about to appear next year. And two, just because we all think something accessible doesn't mean that that's legislation. It's going to say it. This is, and this is quite an interesting point. I think it's really good to understand what these groups do. I often wonder who they're actually made up of. Like who. Because you know, being the person at the bottom, you know, who represents us and how do we get our voices heard?

So is that something that you, you take your members views on into these groups and then put them. Yeah, very much so. So we will be there putting forward the ideas that we've, that we found. So the last meeting we were in for Companion Animal Sector Group was about reviewing the existing licensing in particular in relation to pet shops. And actually partly because we've done quite a lot of work with animal licensing inspectors, we're aware of bits where the licensing just isn't clear enough, more often than not in relation to stock and densities for birds in particular, where actually the way it's worded is really complicated.

The licensees don't understand it quite often the license and inspectors don't understand it. And actually if we can simplify the wording and the calculation, it'll be easier for everybody. We're not about to get any major changes to the licensing regulations as they currently stand, but we will get small tweaks and actually we know currently where we would like to see those tweaks. Similarly, we put a consultation out to our members in the last month about the veterinary medicines. So there's currently a competition to Mac and Authority investigation going on into veterinary prices and whether there's some sort of racketeering going on.

So we put our consultation out to our members to say, you know, look and plain English, what do you find about prices? How do prices compare to website prices? Did you know? Do your clients know that they can get a prescription to buy websites? Do you feel welfare has been compromised by high prices? And then we wrote all that up and we submitted that as our consultation response on behalf of our members and we'll continue to do that with any consultations that come out and relation to licensing of, you know, rescues and anything else that may or may not happen in the future.

But I suppose we've got to be have our eyes open and realistic to the fact that once those consultations go in, you're still sitting there in a room of other stakeholders or opinions and then someone has to make a. Yeah. And the reality is you're never going to please other people all the time. So I think a key example was when there was, when licensing first came in for dog daycare.

It sort of changed quite a lot in the first year or so. And there was a lot of discussions about dog daycare that was entirely outdoor. So they're in a field potentially with a little hot and that may be all that's there. So there was a lot of discussion about actually, you know, there should be some inside space for these dogs for the really hot weather, but also for the miserable winners that they have. And there was a lot of back and forward about how big a space should be required, should it be a size per dog?

Every dog requires, you know, 2 square meters of indoor space. Actually not all dogs want to be in at the same time. So does it need to be every dog? And it went back and forward for months with a lot of arguing, partly from some dog daycares who were entirely outside and couldn't afford slash, didn't want to put in all these extra buildings because they're running a business. And that has to be consideration. But then actually welfare should really be the fundamental consideration.

So sometimes it's who has the loudest voice gets heard the most. All we can do is be part of those conversations, be relaying that information back and forward and actually making sure our members voices are heard in those conversations. So I suppose the message really, you know, if you want to have a voice or you want to have a part in some of these decisions that are being made, then it is to join something like the alliance so that you can be consulted and have your have Your points of view.

It's a bit like voting, isn't it, in a way, you know, I mean. You don't have to be a member to input into these consultations. They are all out there if you want to go through the documents. So what we did with the veterinary medicines pricing one, we went through all the documents and we summarized sort of what they were asking into sort of five key questions that you would ask your friend. Oh, you know, have you noticed any difference between what you pay for medicines compared to what you pay?

So we wrote it in quite a user friendly way and then we pulled that information into one document and we were able to say, you know, 100% of our members felt that prices were significantly higher online, significantly higher face to face than they were online. Here's some examples.

So we sort of make it as easy to access as possible. But those consultations are publicly available. I'm not trying to claim that we are the only ones doing this. You know, if you want to go through it all and put your own thoughts down on paper, then you're very welcome to do that. And sometimes the more consultation responses they get, the better. Yeah. A wide range of views do you find working with these groups is animal welfare and animal licensing and stuff, is that a priority for the government at the moment?

Is that something that is being talked about a lot or. There's a lot going on. So within the group. So within Companion Animal Sector group and the Scottish Cross Party group, there is a lot of conversations happening within those groups, unfortunately. Doesn't seem to be a lot happening actually within government. We're still waiting on Labour's animal welfare map coming out. This is supposed to be out by the end of the year. Still not looking like it is. There's a lot of stuff going on nationally, you know, with the cost of living with, you know, I don't want to get all political, but there's a lot going on that maybe.

Is more in the public eye than animal welfare. That doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of stuff happening further down, but it's just not quite making it to the top level and where change will really happen yet. But we can only keep campaigning for that and keep shouting about the things that we want to change. You know, DEFRA is there as a department in its own right and it still has funding behind, significant funding behind it. So there is still lots of things happening. But the thing to remember with DEFRA is actually quite a lot of their time is taken up with livestock, which there's you know, massive.

Food safety, welfare issues with bird flu at the moment, which is, you know, most of the country's in lockdown. There's been blue tongue for a bit. So there's. There's more than just dogs and cats going on within death threat. And it's about. Oh, yeah, almost making people aware that while stuff's happening, nothing is going to happen overnight. Yeah. Is this something that you've been involved in for many years? Are you getting tired yet, like that constant campaigning? Or are you seeing. I suppose there has been progress, isn't there?

Yeah. I mean, when you look at the animal license and legislation came in in 2018 and that sort of got rid of a lot of the really historic legislation. So the Pet Animals act, the Dog War. Not in Wales. Wales are still hanging on to some bits of this. And the Performing Animals act, all that was sort of amalgamated in England into one piece of legislation, which makes things much more consistent and actually raises welfare standards.

If, you know, I think individuals all write a piece of legislation, it would all because, you know, you want things to be as. As perfect for the animals in your care as possible.

But that's not the way government works. And there's always compromise between who says what and who wants what and what councils can afford to do. The reality is, if we were to suddenly license every single animal practitioner, so that would be groomers, dog walkers, trainers, behaviorists.

Councils don't have the budget to suddenly license all of those things. And part of the reason that animal licensing costs vary is because councils have to almost charge them out at full cost recovery, because there isn't a budget for those jobs anywhere else. So it's, I think, for me, part of doing what we do and why we do it is because there is so much confusion and rumor and speculation and anger about things that aren't moving or this hasn't happened or. And actually, I think sometimes people just need to be informed, actually, stuff is happening, it's just not quite what we want.

And my job isn't to pass judgment on it, it's to just pass the information on. And if you want to come back at me and say, well, actually, we need to do more, then, yeah, we'll put together a letter to the MPs, we'll go back, we can do those things. But can I weave a magic wand and pretend that it's all going to be perfect by this time next year? Absolutely. No. I love a letter to the mp. I've written a few in my time. Yeah. And I mean, that's you know, that's what they're there for, is to take forward the actions that, you know, we, as, you know, as their people have.

I think people maybe forget that, don't they? That actually maybe people just think, think writing it to an MP is worth it. But it is, you know, they do. You do get a reply. I think you always get a reply.

Whether they can do anything about it or not. We've got to be realistic. But it is worth. If you don't raise it, you can't. Yeah. But what is quite interesting is we follows a couple of email updates that you can get called they work for us, they work for you. And you can sort of type in a few keywords and it'll tell you so where there's been conversations happening in government about those sorts of things. And I would say probably on a weekly basis that our dog related questions come up.

But what you tend to see is it's quite a generic response. So it will be, you know.

All animal licensing is currently licensed under the Animal Licensing act and if people have welfare concerns, they're able to raise matters through the Animal Welfare Act. So there's sort of, they sort of, it's raised and it's sort of looked at and then it's sort of pushed back down the pile. But that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. And actually if enough these questions are raised enough times or it becomes a big enough story, then you start to get movement happen. But even then you're not really guaranteed.

If you look at the big sort of promotions that Jamie Oliver's done, that Joe Wicks has done recently in regards to the protein bars, these are hugely high profile people campaigning for one. What seems to be relatively straightforward change and still nothing seems to be happening at the top level. So you have to be aware that everything sort of moves forward in tiny increments. And just because you're not seeing big change doesn't mean that it's not edging closer and closer to that final goal. I think we could all remember Damie Oliver's school meals campaign years ago.

And then I was listening to I'm a Radio 4 listener confession there. But I was listening to it the other day and who. Furley Whittenstall was on there as well, campaigning again for, you know, school meals. It's like that didn't work, did it? It didn't move on, it didn't really move forwards. But, but there were change, you know, there were just smaller changes. Like my kids now they're both at secondary school, it's only chips on a Friday. You know, changes have happened, but we just. We don't get that big headline change that makes us think we've made a real impact.

Everything just moves in gradual increments. That's it. So it's giving. It's helping to people to have a voice, isn't it? And. Yeah. And maybe also an understanding of what's going on. So tell us about the alliance. If people want to sign up or they want to become part of it, you know, what kind of things do you help them with and what the benefits that they get with that?

So everything is on our website anyway, which is www.ionfocusalliance.co.uk or our social media channels. We've been really lucky, actually. We've been really quite well supported since we started. So as a member, you obviously get primary authority access to the primary authority partnership and any licensing questions that you've got. And you get the Corona free legal helpline, which, you know, isn't just for dealing with complaints, is about, you know, I've got a member of staff off sick. How do I deal with this? What can I do legally?

It's about, you know, actually find the changes for minimum wage and things come in. Can you check my ChatGPT policy? All of those sorts of things. We have discounted insurance through pet business insurance.

We have our monthly newsletter, which is full of all the updates and sort of stuff that we've just been talking about. And then we've got a range of other discounts that sort of vary month on month. So some of that is for training, some of that is for webinars, some of that is for products and they're all, again, on our website and updated on our social media. So we would like to think that actually, if you're a savvy pet professional, you can almost save as much as our membership is £120 for a sole trader.

So that's. We sort of classified a sole trader as somebody up to. With up to three members of staff, £120 a year. And actually, if you use all of those benefits, all of those discounts, you probably not really spending an awful lot on us when you view it like that. So really there are ways of making that savings back.

It's a business expense anyway, isn't it? Because it's a trade association. So, yeah, absolutely. And you get your. You get our logo, you get a digital version and you get a sort of a window decal one as well. The 2026 one will be arriving imminently, hopefully in the next day or so.

Which we are hoping as we sort of grow and expand and become more recognized, that that logo itself will start to have a meaning. You know, people will recognize that logo. Actually, they're a trusted professional because, you know, they're, they're thinking about the bigger picture. They're putting way off their first. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that actually, because sometimes that's something that I hear from pet groomers and that about joining trade associations. Do you have a plan or do you have an idea about how you're going to go out to the public to raise your profile and make sure that the public understand who your members are and why it's important to look for one of your members?

Yeah, so I mean, we've done a little bit of sort of public facing stuff to start with. So we've had an article in your dog magazine all about how to choose the right pet professional. So that's everything from obviously looking for our logo, but through to asking questions about insurance, about qualifications, about what they do in emergency situations and actually how well do they get to know your animal or are they all just treated as a dog. So we've done some stuff with them and we've got the Pet Pro Challenge, Properly Insured, Professionally responsible, which is a free logo, it's available to all pet professionals.

Pop on our website, there's a banner along the top that you can sign up and download that logo. And it really is about encouraging pet owners to think about who they're choosing and to ask the right questions. So what we're hoping is that people will display this properly insured logo and it will encourage owners to ask this question of their dog groomer. And actually because they've asked this question of their dog groomer, maybe I should ask it of my dog walker as well and starting to engage with the public as to actually what makes a pet professional.

I think dog walkers in particular sort of experience it more where your local Facebook group has somebody offering dog walking at the weekend or they've got a teenage son or daughter who's looking for some extra cash.

But actually if you're a commercial and professional dog walker, actually insurance should be one of the first things that you have along with your.

Policies for all your emergencies but your plans in place. I think there's very much a difference between your neighbour walking your dog once a week because you were out for longer than you thought, and actually you paying regularly for a professional service. So we want to encourage the public to think about these things, to make informed choices. You know, you'll see it with groomers all the time, people assume that they're qualified, which again, is a whole other conversation. But there is an assumption that everybody is ensured that everybody is doing things right.

And almost what we want to do is encourage those people who are doing it right to shout about it and in doing that, maybe highlight those that aren't. Yeah. So if you want to sign up for your free properly. I'm just watching your banner at the moment on your website, the Free properly insured logo. Are there checks and balances to make sure? No. So we are very small and very, very new. Really what we're doing with that sticker is we're encouraging the owner to make those checks and make those changes.

So if you're shouting about the fact that you're properly insured and an owner says to you, ashley, can I see your insurance certificate or are you insured for walking 15 dogs at a time, then actually the emphasis is on the. The owner asking those questions and make those checks themselves. In an ideal world, we will get to the point where, yeah, you have to upload your insurance certificate and things, but at the moment, it is very much about you promoting your own best practice. Yeah. And I think, you know, the people that want to sign up to these trade bodies and trade alliances, and this is why I asked that question, is they want to see that yourselves are being proactive with the public, I suppose, making sure that the public understand what you're doing, what you're trying to do and, and, and being so that they're recognized when they display your logo in there in their shops and stuff.

And that will hopefully come. Like I say, we've been going since May. Yeah. I would like to think we've made quite a big impact already, but there is definitely significantly more to do. Always. There's always work to do, isn't it? Always work to do. I mean, it's yourself. And was it Michelle? Did you say Michelle? Yes. And is that someone that you've, like, worked with before or was it. Yes, Michelle and I have worked together for a very long time. So Michelle were both teachers together. In fact, the true answer to that question is Michelle was actually one of the first classes I taught.

Wow.

Way back. Way back in the day. And then she came and taught at the college alongside me. And then actually we moved through a couple of jobs together and now we're back together again. Excellent. Do you look after particular parts of the alliance?

Yes. So she is very much IT support. That's right. She is very good on the phone. She is very sociable and personable and much more patient than I am with lots of things.

So it may well be that she's your first port of call as things come in. She does all the behind the scenes stuff. When I message her and say, where do I find this or how do I do that? Or can you just sort this? She is very much the go to girl for all of that. But her background is very similar to mine. She has the same sort of knowledge and experience as I do. Yeah. So what's big for 2026 then? How, you know, this has been going since May.

Have you, you know, looked, looked over last year? What's gone well and what are you looking to put on for 2026? Yeah, so we are signed up to sponsor Pet Pro Expo again. Excellent part of that. And we've got another couple of events that we're sponsoring as well. So canine principals are doing a stage symposium down at Heartbreak in Springtime that we are sponsoring that one of our members is KD Grooming. They've got their event Super Groom that we're sponsoring down there. And actually what, what we found with Petro Expo is actually being face to face people we start to understand what their concerns are, what the problems are.

And actually that is actually one of our best marketing tools really is those face to face things. In terms of sort of growth of the alliance, our sort of year two plans are very much to expand the range of member benefits that we offer. We would like to get to the point that we can offer sort of monthly ask the expert type webinars. So not necessarily where it would be, you know, an hour's presentation, but where it might be sort of 10, 15, 20 minutes of presentation and then an open floor to ask, you know, generic type questions.

So whether that may be on, you know, how to take on a new member of staff, whether that might be how to get through your first licensing, whether that might be on, you know, dealing with first aid situations. Actually we can work through a whole range of experts and allow that sort of slightly open floor type environment. But we are aware we need to be sort of big enough to make that worth everybody's time really. And we do have a webinar that we've very kindly been invited to happening tonight actually, which is a sort of a budgeting type webinar that our members can access free of charge.

So it's building on those sort of connections and industry experts because you know, Sort of as I said earlier with the license and the advice we give isn't my opinion on something, it is fact, you know, as close to accurate as we can possibly be. So we do want to lean on those industry experts who can give our members the right advice and let them be able to relax and know that they're doing things right and they can get the help when they need it. Will we be seeing your crafts?

You need a big budget for crafts. That's the problem and what we discovered. So we've done Groomfest and we'll be doing Groomfest again next year and we've done Pepper Way Expo and actually what we know about those events is 100% of the attendees are our target audience. Whereas when you go to crafts, I mean, and we've done crafts, Michelle and I both done crafts historically.

There'S a lot, there's a lot of people and actually trying to work out which people really are genuinely interested in your product and which people are there because you've got a bag of sweeties off the front is sometimes quite difficult.

Crosswind will be there, but maybe not with a stand. Yeah, I understand it the last couple of years, last year or this year I did actually apply for a stand, but I think it's a little bit like London Marathon. If you've run it before you get a place. If you're not, you're a bit of an outsider and not sure whether they can allocate. So there's been a few empty stands the last couple of years. It's. So it's not, it's not going to say it's small, but any stretch of imagination.

But some of those ends sort of stands around the edge of the holes are sort of getting a bit smaller. Maybe when I just turn up and like camp there, like a pop up stand. But the last few years I've gone, I've always like located myself at one of the bars conveniently next to like the coffee shop, obviously. Yeah. And then people have come and found me. So I've always found a way to. Around it. Yeah. And I think that's. I mean, I think that's the thing, isn't it aj if you know sort of who you want to see and where you can find them, then that's half the battle at Crufts.

Because four days are exhausting. It's been. Yeah. And you know, we've been before and you know, you don't see anything other than the sort of four stands that are around you and just hundreds of people.

Crufts would be a long term aim, but probably not a 20, 26 aim. Okay. On the, on the five year plan. Yes. When we are, when everybody recognizes our logo. Yeah, excellent. When we're a craft sponsor. Wow. But you know, or put on your own crafts.

I think it's good like you know, dog walkers, you could have a pet. I suppose the Pet Pro Expo kind of covers a lot of the, the pet industry isn't there, but yeah, it's a, Sponsoring the shows is a good way to get your, get your name out there and you're like, yeah. And I mean, I think sort of the ones that we're going with really sort of align with who we are. You know, they are about support, they are about professionalizing the industry and that's really what we're about.

You know, the reality is we could probably sponsor something every weekend. You know, there's so much going on across the whole sector, but we do sort of want to look at where we are sponsored and actually it does, you know, genuinely align with who we are. I suppose one of the biggest things for me, and I'd love to see, you know, the Pet Pro Expo brought a lot of the pet businesses together and I would also like to see like the, the veterinary industry embracing the pet industry as a whole as well.

Do you have any kind of contact or do you work with anyone in, within the veterinary industry to raise our profiles within that, within that sphere? Not currently. We've made, we've got a few connections within some of the veterinary organizations but there is sort of a closed offness with the vets. You know, there is.

It'S, it's coming down slowly and steadily. Especially sort of vet nurses are being able to take on a bit more responsibility and they're sort of, they're widening their range of services offered.

But there is a little bit of a, you know, we're a vet and we do our own thing and yeah, it's, it's harder to break in there. And I think for us having the public awareness and the public on side is probably at this point more important than, than the vets especially because actually so many vets are all very corporate. You know, very few towns have their own local vets anymore and that's changed things quite a lot. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? It's something that I'd like to see like the, when we talk about the pet industry, you know, working together as well, I think there's a lot of benefits for everyone to come together and, and work Hugely.

Work with each other. Hugely. And I honestly couldn't agree with that more. I mean, there are other organizations doing what we do, you know, there's lots of membership organizations that offer different support in different ways out there. We are not for everybody, you know, and there is so much out there. But what is important is that we all stand united and actually come together to raise standards because we're all in the pet sector because we all love animals, respect animals and want what's best for them. And that's really the one thing that unites us all.

Yeah, brilliant. Well, so they can get hold of you at the animal focusedalliance website.co.uk. You'Re on Facebook, you're on Instagram, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And then next year, if you're a pet groomer, you can go and say hello at the Groomfest in May. Yep. And then Pet Pro Expo in October. Yes, I think we're doing both the Groomfests because they've got their education one and their shopping one, don't they? So I think we're doing both of them and I'm sure we'll be out and about some other places between now and then.

But yeah, what I would say is even if you're not ready to join as member, even if you're thinking, I'm not sure, we have a non members newsletter that goes out every month that has sort of the key updates, not necessarily the same level of detail and things that our members get, but those sort of key updates and things that actually really everybody should know. So you're welcome to sign up for that newsletter even if you don't want to be involved in us with any other way.

Excellent. Yeah, go and follow you on Facebook, start watching what you do, how your updates and start getting to know the Animal Focused Alliance.

Excellent. Thank you for your time. No, thank you for having me. Soon. Yeah, see you soon. Take care. I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Please make sure you give us a like or a review to help people find it. The podcast is sponsored by Low Pay. Head over to www.lopay.com to find out more about their payment solution.