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Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business. This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more. So without further ado, let's get going.
Right. Welcome, everyone. Welcome to today's. I'm going to call it Lunch and Learn, because I think we need to start getting into this habit of doing some learning and some. A bit of CBD or something like that, couldn't we? We're joined with Sophie today. Welcome, Sophie. How are you? I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having me again, Bill. Are you welcome? People are probably going to recognize your voice, hopefully, but just let us know, like, who you are. This is. I always feel like this is Blind date.
Who you are. Where did you come from? Do you remember that? Yes, I do. Then you have to say free facts. Start yourself. I'm not folding off the cast. Should I try? Well, you. Where'd you come from? My name's Sophie and I'm from London. Yeah. So I'm from Croydon. What are three facts about me? I have been in the dog grooming and cat grooming industry for 15 years. I started at 18 and now I've sat the dogs off and I'm just doing cats. I see. So you're.
You're the. The proud owner of the Kitty Cat Club. Yes, that's me sometimes. Yeah, I know, yeah, the Kitty Cat Club. It's got a ring to it. And I used to own top to tail and I did seminars and all sorts of other bits. But, yeah, but now I'm a simple lady and I have one business. Here's a question for you and it's, you know, none of this is scripted, is it? So this, I've been. I'm not going to tell you too by surprise, but do you consider yourself an entrepreneur?
So I remember when I was younger and I might have said this in the first podcast we did, Bill, but there was a friend of mine at 18 when I first took on my first business, and she said to me, I called myself an entrepreneur. And she said to me, you're not an entrepreneur, you just are a dog groomer. And that hurt. So that's, I think, part of me when I had, I had quite a few businesses at one point and I feel like I was trying to prove to myself I was an entrepreneur.
And now I've scaled them all back, sold some, you know, and I would still call myself an entrepreneur even with the one business that I run. Now, a couple of days a week. But yeah, I would call myself an entrepreneur. And I think we've earned that cap. I think we can wear that cap with pride. Yeah. And I think if you, if it went away and actually googled the definition of entrepreneur, and I can't remember it rightly because like I said, we don't haven't done like scripted this.
So I've taken myself a bit by surprise here. But it's the, it's taking risk or like starting a business, taking risk in the pursuit of profit I think is the definition of what an entrepreneur is. So many people here listening to a podcast, listening to this chat. If you're, you know, if you're running a business, if you're a business owner, be proud you are an entrepreneur. But I suppose many of us sort of think of bigger people. Yeah. Or shy away from it. I just, I googled it while you were chatting.
It says an entrepreneur is someone who starts and runs a business, often taking on a lot of risks. They are usually innovative problem solvers who are not afraid to create new products or services. There we go. That would be really interesting to see what the listeners think about that and whether they can, I think they can identify themselves in that. But I think many people will say, oh no, that's not me, that's not me. I just, you know, I just, you know, I like, I like working with pets and I, I, I just do.
But you are, you're taking that, that risk. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, I think sometimes that's the industry. I think a lot of people go into this industry because they want to work with pets or animals or dogs or cats or whatever. And then they don't see themselves as a business person. They see themselves following their passion. But if you've chosen to run your own business, you're self employed, therefore you are, you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. And you know, don't we know it at the moment as this tax return time.
Oh my, Isn't it like, I, to be fair, I've done so many tax returns, as in like gone through so many years now being 15 years in, I still hate, hate, hate the tax return. I can't do it myself. I have an accountant. I, even though I'm smaller now, I wouldn't want to do it myself. It fills me with such anxiety for some reason. Like, it's like my parents were doing their tax return. They're going to go a small amount that they need today. And because we sold our businesses then used to have it done within that.
Because they were part of one of the businesses, but now they were, they were like, oh, we do it ourselves. And they were asking me all these questions, I don't know. And they're like, you've been doing it for so long. I was like, no, but I pay someone to do it for me because I'm, I'm more focused on ideas, the business, you know, growing it, not sitting and working out what these lingo. This lingo means and writing something in the right box. So yeah, I much prefer an accountant to do it.
So hats off to anyone who doesn't. Yeah. And remember, tax doesn't need to be taxing. That's the slogan. Yeah, I don't believe that. What's interesting that you said about that was your parents used to do tax returns. Does that mean they were entrepreneurs as well? And did you get some of your spirit from them? Not at all. Not so. So I brought them. So we had our clothing company at one point which was top sell clothing and we've sold that now to Tiffany. He's lovely. But they came into that business with me and they are completely deer in headlights.
No idea about business. When I took my first business on at 18, they supported me in, in the way they, they got a loan out for me and I paid them back. They're not ridiculously wealthy. It's not that they had the money sitting there, but they had the ability to get basically a mortgage out for me or a loan. I can't remember at the time. And then I paid them back, but they had no idea. So I didn't have that mentor of anything. And I literally, I just muddled through.
I had no idea. And I would cringe like I'd love to go back to my 18 year old self and just talk to her as they. You do well, but you do need to run a payroll. You do. Because I was, I think I said it in the last podcast. I ran for like six months and I didn't run a payroll. I kept aside money for tax and stuff like that. But I just didn't run like, because I was so scared. And then I rang hmc. They were really helpful and helped me, but I just had no one telling me what to do.
And apart from there was a couple of other businesses on our street or around and I started chatting to them and a lot of them were like, hide money, hide money because they were scared of the VAT threshold. And I became. That registered quite quickly because I was running it all honestly and I couldn't go to sleep at night without. So, yeah, I had no one really to guide me. So I just. Where were you, Bill, back then? You're probably in the place. I needed you. I needed you back then to help me and hold my hand.
What year was that? What years were this? So I was 18. So that was 2008. Yeah, I was in the police. Yeah, I was just changing career from like response officer in the sunny borough of Tunbridge Wells to firearms. Police say, okay, yeah, I was doing some upskilling as well. But when you think back to when you're 18 and running a payroll, so obviously you had employees. How did you feel about risk? Because we talked about, you know, being an entrepreneur is taking on that risk. How's your sort of how you've dealt with risk?
How's that evolved over the years? Or has it got worse as we got older and more anxious or, you know, sort of young and don't really understand the risk? Just like, I think it was a bit of both. I didn't like, I am a risk taker. Like, me and my husband are so different. So he's like, I remember sitting in the mortgage meeting and this was back again like a good 12 years ago. And at the time there was trackers or there was, or you, or you could go on the fixed.
And at the time the mortgage rate was low. So you. I was like, tracker, let's go tracker. Like, why not? And he was like, fixed, fixed, go fix. I need control. So it's like complete opposite. And I'm always, yeah, I am a risk taker. I, I, I'm glad I'm not into gambling because I would worry for me myself.
Yeah. But yeah, I still take risks. Even like with the embroidery company and so it top to tail clothing. I remember sitting and I was like, embroidery company, let's get an embroidery machine. It will help. And the whole family, because it was a whole family that came in on that business. So. And it was just my sister was like, okay, yeah, I'm on board. My dad was like, no, that's like eight, nine grand of our money. Why aren't you doing it? You know? And now he looks back, he's like, you were right.
And I was like, I'm always right. This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay. Low pay is half the price of sum up and Zettle. So you keep more of the money that you earn. Rates start at 0.79%. Although you're a risk taker, do you reflect on the risks that you take if they go Right. And they go wrong. Yeah, you have to because it costs money. And like, yeah, I made many costly mistakes and I think the biggest mistake was probably not necessarily losing money, but my mental health, that was the biggest thing.
So sometimes I risk not just the money aspects but the, the sacrifice of, or the actual reality of what it takes to do that and oversee that and see it to the finish. And I'm not sometimes that good at being aware of how it not just affects me. There's a chain reaction. So if I accept to do something. So for instance, recently I mentioned to you Bill, that we, I started doing some tick tock stuff and one video kind of exploded and then that kind of like I was like, oh, shiny new thing, this is exciting, let's do this.
And, and then we got able to do lives on tick tocks and I was like brilliant, let me do lives, love it. Started doing lives. But I'm also training a new employee and by going live it slowed me down because I'm having to talk through handling and get some haters on there asking questions or nice people asking questions. But it slows you down and then the next cat you might be a bit behind so you've got to work quicker. But with a new employee it is harder on her because she, the time I'm live she can't really ask me too much.
And then suddenly we're like catching up with ourselves and it's pressure. So it's like that, that kind of knock on effect. And so yeah, I have in the past, probably not. I've, I've, I've needed to react quicker to go, oh wait, let's really risk, assess this. Let's work out not only financially but how is this going to cost me mentally, the other people around me mentally. And is it the right way to get to where I'm going? Because without a plan of where I'm going, I'm just aimlessly wandering with shiny things.
Yeah, consequences I suppose, isn't it? It's thinking the consequences and what, what, yeah, what effect that has on other people. And that's quite a, that's probably a life skill, isn't it that we learn as we get older and probably not something that we think about when we're quite young. Yeah, yeah. But luckily for me a lot of the things did pay off. But there are times like with an entrepreneur's journey, you don't see, you see the happy things. Especially if you're watching someone online you might think, oh, that person's really got it.
And like they're doing really well. But you don't see the, the really tough times and, but you. Not often you would stand up and say, oh, I hadn't paid myself this month because times are tough. Like you don't normally share those deep troughs of business, if that makes sense. So I think there are definitely times that it might look like I was a success, but I, I was struggling. Um, so yeah, I probably have regretted and if I'm completely honest, the reason why I've sold my businesses now, the dog grooming parts was because.
Not because they weren't successful but because my mental. I, I had lost my love for it and it had cost me too much and the risk that I'd like the, the amount of energy and time I put into it and not as much rewards over the years. I kind of regretted some of those decisions. I regret like, I do look back at my 20s and it's quite sad that my mind is. I was more. I feel like the businesses robbed me of my life. They ran you.
I mean you run. Running the business. Yeah. And part of that was me trying to learn my way through. I was still very young and I took on a business that was already running. So it wasn't like I was growing with a business. I, from day one I had a very busy business and staff thing. I took on at least three members of staff at the start and I was the Saturday girl and suddenly I was their boss, you know.
But I definitely look back and I struggled to see the positives of running a business layer. I always sort of say, I call that the beast of a business. And we've certainly been through that with our pet career business where the business is kind of leaping and striding forwards and you're trying to hold it back and it's just like throwing you around, making decisions for you and you're like actually, who's actually in control of this? And a lot of that for us came down to our pricing and the fact that we were, our prices would.
Were lows, which meant we had like a, a volume model which meant we had to do a lot of dogs in a day. And to get. Do a lot of dogs, we then needed lots of stuff, you know. And yeah, we see this cycle day in, day out with lots of, lots of groomers sort of get into this model. And then it all clarity kind of came along when we, we sought out mentorship and you know, we came out of COVID Prices went up 19%, we made two staff members redundant and we're just like, no, we're not going to do, we're going to do less and.
Earn more thing and then hard decisions though, isn't it? Yeah. And you've got other, you know, you've got customers that you haven't to put your price up. I remember we were just about to start going back into the shop and I remember Emma, my wife, was having, I was, I was still in the police at the time, so I was at work quite a lot of it. But Emma was like really, really having that wobble around, that big price increase. And we reached out to our mentors and she had like a one to one to sort of just reassure, reaffirm, relax, you know, to get her through that.
And then obviously we connected with a HR professional as well to do redundancies. But yeah, it's big steps, big steps that you have to do sometimes. Yeah. And I think when you're doing it on your own, it's so easy to get trapped in your head about these things. And actually like when I've done price increases, when I first did, I think we did a 20% if not more when we first. Because I neglected it for years because I was too scared and then I just had to do it and I had to really like, that was when I went into business with Ryan and Ryan Lee and he helped us along that as well because it was a big journey and having that person to bounce off and talk through.
I was like, yeah, we can go up 30%. We know you go from one extreme to the other, but it's about having that support. And I think, Bill, I think what you're doing in this industry, it just is incredible because I just really know I needed that and I wish, I think I would if I had had that support because I was looking for business partners. I remember I broke and I was like, I need a business partner because I just needed someone to help. And actually what I probably needed was a mentor because I, I was okay at running them.
I just needed that, that company or support and that alliance that someone's gonna have my back and help me. So yeah, yeah. And I get calls or messages throughout the day from clients saying, you know, what should I do with this dog? Or you know, I remember having phone calls at like again, price increase day, 8 o'clock in the morning. I can't do this, I can't do this. It's like, right, this, you can do this. This is how it's gonna work. This is what you need to, need to be doing.
You know, look towards the future, not to what's happening today. So it is just that, isn't it? Having someone there to reassure us because as much as we like our friends and family, they don't always quite understand what's going on. No. No. But I wish if I'd done that earlier I wouldn't have if, if I had taken the business side and I went into it because I love dogs. I'm probably opposite to a lot of people. I do love dogs. But I'm not like it wasn't a passion driven decision.
It was I want to be a business person, I wanted to be an entrepreneur and. But I got stuck being the actual working hand in the dog groomer rather than focusing on the business. And if I had made those better choices, I would probably not be sitting here, probably could have carried on having them because I wouldn't have felt they robbed me and I wouldn't have had that mental issue with them and even now not owning them. So I wasn't sure how I was going to feel after selling them.
Like there's no regret there about sending them. But I sometimes do sit there and go, they were in the best position. Why did I, why, why did I do that? But then I know that it was, it's the right thing for my family and me moving forward. But there's always that I wish I just managed to earlier on before I felt that I'd lost that love really rectified my decisions when I was younger and then that could have made me in a better place today. But you can always look back and go, aren't you?
I think it's really, really important to, to make mistakes because making mistakes actually makes you the, the better business owner and the person that you are now. And had you not made those mistakes then you may not have the successful kitty cat crump. No. Yeah, yeah. And I don't really chose, I don't call them mistakes until if you're doing the same thing over and over again, I think that's the insanity is the definition of doing the same thing over and over again. You're not learning from your mistakes then you know you've got issues and, and, and but when you do learn from them, reflect from them and then change something and move on, that's where, that's your growth zone, isn't it?
That's your learning zone. So it's really important. So my extent MD from an 18 year old you're gonna evolve on you. And the thing is most people who aren't like in business when you when you take on your own business, sometimes when you sell it or when you decide you're going to move on, people are, oh, what happened? Are you okay, Rick? You know, rather than looking at as well done, you've sold your business. There is the odd person that said to me, oh, you sold it, have you?
And they're like, oh, she's off to the Bahamas. She's like living her life. But, but like most of the time there's this undertone of oh, no, like you failed kind of thing. And it's hard because if I was, if I was in, I don't know, a different job, and I said, oh, I'm just changing jobs, people. Oh, congratulations. What's your new job? They wouldn't go. What happened? You know, like, so it's weird people's. Mindset, but it's also. And I had the same sort of thoughts and feelings when I resigned from the police.
It's like, what are people going to think of me, you know, what my children going to think about me resigning and no longer having that, that status position. But I came to terms with it, with a way of just saying that I outgrew it. You know, it no longer aligned with what I wanted to do and what I wanted from life. And it's okay to change things and, but when it comes to business, it's really important to be flexible and open. I did a podcast the other day about being open to change and learning.
Like, even like in marketing or in your pricing or in your, the way you deal with your customers, like being open to, to changing it up, moving your business pivot. Oh, yes.
So let's, let's get into with the reason why you're here was talking about selling your business. But you know, it's great, great conversations before then. So when did you get to that point where you just thought, this is it, I've just got a, I've got to sell a business. And how did you go about selling it? Right. What research did you do or did you get something? Yeah, so. So I've sold free, free businesses now. So if I take you back to 2020 lockdown, I broke completely mentally, had a really big mental health illness.
Really. I was suicidal, not well at all, which we talked about in the other podcast, really. And at that point I had to work out what was got Something's got to give. At the time I was doing the Whip it as well, which was the media platform that we did. If you around in the grooming industry back then, you might remember and I Pulled out of that because I had to. I had. That was the last thing in. And it was the first thing I had to stop because it was just.
I had no capacity. I went from being able to run all these businesses and I was doing seminars and all these things and. And went from that to can't even write an email, don't want to get out of bed, Literally wanted to die. Which I know sound. I sound like I'm brushing over it. But it is a real. It was a real tough time of my life and I'm sure lots of people can relate to that and just. Yeah, but because I knew that something had to give, I had to reassess everything.
And the one thing that's quite difficult when you own your own business is it's not as simple as just, I'm going to get called off sick. I'm going to have some months to reflect on this. The business keeps rolling and you have to still be. Your responsibility is still there.
So it was locked down, our salon shut because of the lockdown. But I was mainly focusing on the clothing company at that time and the clothing boom because everyone got their grants and everyone wanted new salon equipment and stuff. So I was working to the bone. And it was just at that point that I broke and we said, like, I've got to look at what the future holds and what I want.
And it did take a while, but I just felt that I, first of all, I needed to sell the clothing company because I had just lost my way with it a bit and just couldn't bring myself to. It was the last. Again, it was the second last thing in. So it was a second, second, second thing to go. So that was the first thing we sold. And with that one I. We got it valued a few times with different people and then I did it myself because I knew a lot of people in the industry.
I thought the only people in the industry that are going to know the value of Top sale clothing was people in the industry. So I didn't need a broker because Top Tail clothing isn't known to the average Joe walking down the street, but to the grooming industry, it was quite well known at that time. So I put it out on our social platforms and we had, I think 50 to 100 people come through and say they were interested.
And then that kind of whittled down to obviously negotiations on price and all of those kind of things. And then lovely Tiffany bought it. So that was quite straightforward because I didn't have a broker. I'd got evaluation A few times we put it up for what we felt we were comfortable with. Obviously in the end we sold it for less than that because it's the market value. Signs only going to pay for a business, how much it they feel is worth. It's. It's not as simple as like a.
A house sale which has got more market value. There's other things on the road that you can see that are going, you know, this is a bit different. So anyway, so Tiffany took that one and I still felt after her buying that I still felt lost, if I'm completely honest. So at that point I had two grooming salons, one in Sutton and one in Colston, and we had to start thinking what we were going to do. My sister, who also got sick, so we both ended up having babies, she got sick really badly when we were pregnant and that I think was a nail in the coffin kind of thing to both of us saying that we wanted to leave top to tail.
We got in a bit of financial difficulty where because she was ill and I was still recovering mentally and we were still trying to juggle the businesses after Covid coming out of lockdown. Staff, I mean, an amazing team, but we just, we. Our hearts weren't in it because we were struggling. And then when Emma was pregnant and she was so ill and I just crazy. We just lost our way and we missed a couple of payments of that or something and we got to a point where we were in trouble, really in trouble.
And it's because we had taken our eye off the ball and it was. The only people that we can blame for that is me and my. My sister Emma, because we weren't really aware of things because we'd taken our eye off and we've had a crisis meeting and this was just before I was actually about to have Ezra. My son and I went off a maternity leave and I thought, I'm gonna have a maternity leave, I have to have a maternity leave. And then I got a call from Emma and said we might need to liquidate and that's how bad it was.
And I was like, crap. Like how we got to this point because we just. It was just a couple of months that we'd got behind on, but that can. With a business of that size, that's quite a lot of money. And to try and find that again after trying to recover from COVID itself, it's just. It was too much. So we basically said, how are we going to do this? We're going to have to tick along and we're not going to let the staff go because we can't.
We're going to have to raise our prices, we're going to have to, we're going to have, we can't just let it go. We looked at liquidation, we didn't know what to do. And if, to be honest, if my staff are listening to this, they wouldn't notice because they don't know how bad it was. But we wanted to make sure they were protected. And this was back in 2022, early 2022, to give a kind of timeline.
And then we decided we weren't going to liquidate and we were going to push through, worked out a debt plan, we worked out how we were going to do it, we went in payment plans, we worked out that we weren't going to pay ourselves anything for a year and we needed it to take apart, we had to take away some, we would raise some of the salaries. And because we were also doing a top toe academy at the time, we were doing all sorts and we're like, look, we have to pull back, we have to shut the academy, we have to take away those pay rises.
Because that was to do with the academy. We have to up the prices, we have to get enough dogs, make sure it's really like squeezing everything out of it without taking too much on the staff. Because we couldn't, we could have gone, right, you all need to groom 10, 12 dogs a day. But, but we'd lost them and they were, they were our business and we, we were going away to have babies. We had to let them help us through this and the last thing we wanted to do is burn them out.
So anyway, we got through it and we managed to pay all that debt off within basically a year. And we were like, wow, this business is doing amazing. Imagine if that next year that money was ours, not, not paying those bills off. And it was getting to the point where we had, that pressure had basically made us make this business like the best it'll ever been. It made you focus on it, hadn't it? It made you drive, it made you drive the business and focus on your numbers and, and really sort of get into it.
And we couldn't afford to, not, we couldn't afford to miss anything every week. We were like, is it booked up to the maximum? Do we need to push this? Do we need to. And we were literally just on it, on it, on it. And we were like, so proud of ourselves that we had got ourselves from a point of liquidation to the best it was running. And the Most profitable it had been. But in that time we had still lost our passion. And no matter what profits coming out of a business, if you're not in it, we just felt that it wasn't fair on the staff.
It wasn't fair and it just wasn't fair on us. Like, I dreaded it and it was the best it'd ever been. Like, I dread a phone call from the staff. I dread, I dread anything that went slightly wrong because for some reason I just lost it with it. So at that point we knew we had to. Was it that feeling of, you know, when you get really overwhelmed with something, it doesn't take a lot, does it, just to tip it. So like you were saying, like that phone call from a member of staff saying, I'm sick today or blast is blown up or something like that.
And it's, it's so. It can be so minor, it can just tip you straight into like free fall. And you, you, I suppose you knew how you felt and you knew the signs and symptoms of relapsing back into poor mental health and you completely. It would be like one class. The staff would ring me and they'd tell me something even mundane or like, or even if they did hand in a notice, I'd hold it together on a phone conversation. I'd be like, honestly, it's no problem because.
Because obviously I'm not going to take it out on them. I would hang up the phone and I'd be on the floor and I would just be a mess. And my sister was very like, she's level headed. She was just like, it's fine, we'll be okay, it's not a problem, we're going to be okay. But I just couldn't keep having that roller coaster and I don't think I had the strength to get my head round it to not catastrophize anymore. So, yeah, so we decided, like, even though we'd got it to the best place it was, well, that's the time to sell because it's looking pretty great.
So, yeah, so then we sold our Sutton branch because that was the third thing in. Or whatever I said earlier. It's, yeah, the third thing to go. So we sold that to our lovely staff member, Demi. And actually, I can't remember how it happened now. I think she either talked to us about it or we talked to her and we just said to her, look like there's no one better that could buy this business than you. You're already on manager, you're already running it. You can do it.
And it has been a pleasure to see her just take off, like. It's just so nice when you pass that baton on and you see them just flourish. So then that was pretty simple because it didn't go on the open market, but it wouldn't. Sorry, how do you manage the communication with customers and stuff? Was it. Did you have to manage any communication with your customers? Because I suppose you weren't there, but you're on maternity leave and you were behind the scenes driving the business. But Demi was the manager and fun.
Yeah. So Sutton was a business that I took on, the grooming business when I took on. And I took it on at the time, I think I was about four years into business, I was probably around 22. And I took it on because I was going to go into business with someone but unfortunately they hurt themselves and then they didn't take on the business. So in the end I ended up running two businesses when I didn't really have the capacity to run two at that time. And I've never.
Although the businesses were at the best they'd ever been, Saturn was still just ticking. Sutton was just the one. So our main business was Colson, which I haven't gone on to tell you about selling yet. So Sutton was just. It. It wasn't dead weight, it was profitable, it was doing well, but it never really compared to calls and it was half the business, like, it just. It had less staffed, open, less days, it ticked along, made it actually good profit for it because it was quite a little.
It worked. There was hardly any. It wasn't that big of a staff, so. And the staff were really loyal. So it ticked along and it worked fine. But it wasn't as involved with us, so we weren't really the face of it because we weren't as much in it. So it was quite easy really for the customers because they knew Demi, they knew she'd been running it and she was just like, instead of me being an employee, I'm now the boss. So she. And she just took that on quite well.
So I think we wrote to the staff, but we didn't do too much, to be honest. Not staff, the customers, because they didn't really know us. So actually, I think us doing too much would have been a bit more confusing. And yeah, the name wasn't changing, the faces weren't changing. So change. Oh, you did change the name. Because at that time we were thinking that we might put up top to tell Colesdon for sale and. Cause it wasn't going to now be associated with each other. We discussed with her and said, it's probably better for you because we don't know who we're going to sell it to, that you change the name so that you're separate.
Also because Sutton's, the Sutton Salon, again, wasn't as established. It was still ticking along, it was fine. But she could really, like make a big thing about rebranding it's hers and really, like take ownership of it.
So she was up for changing it. So that's called Wags and Wits Whiskers now. And she's. And she's fashion. It's great.
The notion of selling a business to a member of staff was something that I was completely unaware of until sort of chatting away through our accountant and he was like, actually, most or not most majority of businesses that are sold generally are sold within the staff. You know, staff takeover or the, or the manager or any member of staff. And I never really considered. Considered. Yeah, I think I always thought, you know, you put your, your business on the open market and wait for someone to come along, but like you said, who's better?
There's no one better to know the ins and outs. See, the thing is, is even though I sold it to someone who was in so Saturn, to the manager with Colston, I was too scared to approach the staff because it was a bigger business and because of my anxiety, I didn't want to rock the boat. And I felt like the moment I told them that this was happening and we were thinking of selling, I was like, that's it, the cat's out the bag, literally. And what if they leave?
I can't step in and groom. I can't, because I can't. Honestly, even now, if you turn around and tell me to bring my dog, for some reason, the level of anxiety in me, I know I can groom a dog, but I've just. I just go, no, thanks, Phil. And I'd run like, this is a. Managed there, isn't there? There's, you know, you've got your. It's quite overwhelming. You've got your staff that you need to keep on side and in the, in the dark so that they don't knock the boat and leave.
And because for them, it's quite a vulnerable position to be in as well, isn't it? Because they don't know what's going around the corner in six months, who the new owner is, etc. It's so hard. So, so we, first of all, we call them, we put it on the market. We got a broker in. We got. I think we had about seven valuations or something and then worked out what we were happy with and we put it on the market and we put it actually confidential, confidentially.
On the market. Yeah. Which means it goes up and it's. There's no photos, only photos once they've signed a non disclaimer and location as to where. Yeah, because the location said Greater London and we're in Croydon, so.
So we did that and we put it up and we didn't tell the staff. And I hated that because I'm a Christian and I like to be honest about everything, which is also really hard for me because when you've got a staff, you have to shield them from things as well at points. So I find that really hard and especially when they ever asked any question or like, I'm. I started launching the Kitty Cat Club at that point as my exit plan and it felt really uncomfortable because if they asked any question, I just felt like I was lying and I.
I just felt, oh. And then that didn't help my mental health either.
So it went up. Confidential. I can't say that word. And we had viewings and we had quite a few viewings and we had quite a lot of interest, which was great. But again, it was like, awkward, saying to the staff, make sure it's really tidy today because of a reason. And then if they'd gone back and checked the cctv, they'd see me walking this random person around the salon that night. You know, it's. I. I hated doing it that way and if I went back, I probably would have changed it because it would have sold quicker to one of the staff because that's how we ended up going with.
But you just don't know in that time. So anyway, it's risk again, isn't it? It's. It's dealing with risk because the risk. There's so many different risks that you can talk about within that selling process of the. The staff, the customers, you know, if the customers get wind of it and they're not happy and they start leaving, your. Your business is starting to. Yeah. So what? And the reason. Go on. Sorry, we just sort of. I don't want to know how much you sold it for, etc.
But the valuation process. Lots of people often really interested in the valuation process and we get a lot of questions around, how do you value a business? I'm not going to go into the customer side of things, but how do you value a business? You said you had seven Valuations. Did they all do it similarly? How did they. No, they were quite a range. Yeah. There was, there was quite a few that were like quite low and then there was like, there was quite a few in the middle.
So we went for the middle basically. There was some that were like skyrocket high and you're like, okay, I wish. And then there was some that were like, no way, I wouldn't even sell it for that. Like, I would keep going for that price. Yeah. Did they ask for like accounts? Did they want to snack statistics? Like how many grooms just every day. And they all ask different things, which was quite interesting. So if you're going to go into this and do this yourself, I would like just make sure you've got your free.
They'll guide you anyway so you don't need to panic. But do realize the moment you ring a broker, you're going to be hounded by that broker. They want your best, they want your. They want you like and remember that they want you. So let them work for you, you know.
So we had quite a lot of. Yeah, the brokers that were interested and they, they said all different prices and they asked for the three years of accounts mainly. And then they would ask like your social, social media levels. Like what, what accounts you've got your website so they can have a look at your website, the number of clients you have in a year. So if you've like, you don't have to have those things but if you've got like we have an appointment software so, so we could show all of that stuff.
But the main thing was the accounts because they look at the profitability of that and then also what you actually have like tables and like what your stock level is. Yeah. The physical. Were you a limited company or a sole trader? Yeah, limited. Yeah. So it made it a bit easier with. When it comes to the accounts to look at and stuff. Yeah, it had that. So yeah, so then they had those and then you kind of decide what price to go with. They kind of give you a, an idea and then, and then you signed in with a contract with that, with that person, whoever you choose.
I went on by recommendations. It was another person in the grooming industry that sold their business and I spoke to them and that just kind of felt like, oh, I've told someone, finally told someone, just someone that you could just open. Be open about it. And then she recommended her broker. But in the end we said. So we. Sorry, I know I'm juggling. So hopefully this makes sense to the Listeners. But. So then we went with the broker. We found someone who was going to buy it and they accept.
We accepted their offer. We started with a solicitor and we told the staff that it was going to happen in a month. So we had the meeting, we told the staff and they were excited. No, we didn't tell the staff. We told the manager. And the manager was, like, fine, excited, started speaking to this new person and she pulled out at the last minute.
So that kind of, like, took the rug again, like, underneath my feet. And I was like, the cat's out the bag. The staff know that someone lined up and now we're saying we're keeping it. Like, what the hell? Like, I. I can't. It's not. We can't go confidential anymore. Like. Like. And please don't. Like, please don't leave the staff. Like. So I remember I had to go and have this meeting with the staff to tell them because the manager knew and I had to tell them because they're going to see that it's up for sale.
And then, you know, like, as much as you can say to the manager, don't tell them it's unfair to put her in that position. And.
Everyone goes. Everyone goes to the worst place, don't they? Everyone thinks, oh, they're selling it because it's failing. Yeah, that's it, you know, but it's not always the case, is it? So I had to go and have this meeting with the staff and my sister couldn't come for some reason with me, so I went down on my own. And something also happened with my child care, so I went down my own with two kids to talk to the staff. This is not the meeting that you want, with two kids to talk to the staff.
And I just sat them down and I was just like, look, we found a buyer. Our passion's not in it. You probably noticed because you hardly see us down here and. But you're all doing such a fabric. And they were. They're all incredible girls. They're all still there and they're amazing, but our heart's not in it. And we just. I just. Literally, I was pretty open and I just said, look, we are not going to sell to someone who we don't trust with this business. We have worked this hard to not let you go.
We're not going to give you someone rotten, we promise you. So please, please, can you trust us and know that we're going to? And luckily they did. And from that conversation, then we spoke to the manager and now the manager Bought it. Amazing. So, yeah, and I think I actually, the last podcast we did, I said, we're selling the business on that. And that was like around the time that it all fallen free. And we were just like, well, we're for the clothing to tell the grooming industry, let's just tell the grooming industry, who knows, because people know our name.
People might want it, you know, but it couldn't have gone to a better person. Again, Kerryanne, who's now the owner, who's the manager and she's just incredible. She was running it. The staff love her, they know her. And it was quite a quick transition, I think, from when we told the staff.
Oh, trying to think now. I think it might have been September last year and we sold by the November to her and now I'm free.
When you were getting potential inquiries from, from people before the manager became involved and interested, were you, like you said, you didn't want to sell it to somewhat just. You didn't want to send it to just anyone and he wants to make sure the staff were looked after. Did you turn away any inquiries? Did you vet them? Did you like, show me your plan? How you gonna, you know, are you gonna make the staff redundant? Are you gonna keep them? Yeah, yeah. Could you actually, like turn people, tell the breaker.
I'm not interested in that. In them. Yeah, so. So I with it. Although you have a broker, it's not like an estate agent where you're shielded and they take them round and talk to them. You are meeting each one hands on. Which actually as much as it was nerve wracking and it was stressful in my head because they're not asking me. Some of them asked hardly anything but some of them were like grilling me on figures like I was back in the Dragons Den. Well, let me just, just speak to my accountant.
It's just easier. There's tons of questions, but you don't have to, like, you don't have to know it all. Your accountant can know it and like you can give them the accounts and say that these are the accounts, you could look through them. And we were quite proud of the accounts because we'd got it to a really good place and so there wasn't anything really to hide.
And yeah, like, so we did have some people. We had. I won't go into details of who they are obviously, in case they ever listen, but there was definitely some that I was just like, I don't trust you with this business and with. There's different things when you're Handing over staff. So because it was a share. Let me just remember this now, it was a share sale. So there's different ways. When it's a limited company, you've got a share purchase agreement or you've got a. What's the other one called?
Trying to think. It's good now. Assets, asset purchase. And we went down the share sale. So when they, when they're doing a share sale, that means they take on all the staff. They're literally taking on that company. And the company has the contracts with the staff and everything. So it's really easy because you're literally selling the whole thing. There's the package, it's yours to keep. So much less to work out on the bank because they take on the bank account, they take on everything. And with the staff, in that way they're really protected because if their contracts are honored, they like, if they went to make them redundant, they'd have to legally do it.
They would like go away. And, and that's the same kind of risk. They would be with us because we could have made them redundant. You know, it's, it's like that. But we did talk at length with the, the lady that we have agreed to, said it to. We talked to her at length, but unfortunately ended at the last minute. And I did really trust her and I think she would have been amazing. She was very kind and, and friendly and I clicked with her. But there's no one better than the manager, like, because she was already doing it.
So, yeah, I feel like I've waffled. A lot, but hopefully it's really interesting and people might think, you know, you. The first of the month you get this big check for your. For your business, you know, is there or did you have to come up with like a payment plan arrangement, a transition. Transition period where you kind of help them like transition over. And this is the login for this and this is the login for that. And, and here's the. Here's all the, you know, all the paperwork for the last 10 years.
Yeah, yeah, it was kind of. So. So with payment plans and stuff. So we ended up not going through the broker because. Because it fell through when the point. It fell through with the original lady and we had some issues with our breaker. In the end they were really good. But because of that we said to them, like, I think we're going to have some time away and not sell for another year, carry on building it up and then sell it. Because that's. At the start. We were like, is that what we're going to do.
I'm not sure what we're going to do. It is only because the manager came forward that it worked. So they released us from our contract. So in the end we didn't go through, through them, which meant that we saved that fee, which was helpful as well. And because we knew the manager, we could do the contracts ourselves more often. Having like a, a very expensive solicitor because you don't have to negotiate certain things. So those things are helpful.
But I can't remember what else you asked then about our payment plans. So, yeah, so we basically, without going into too much detail, we had got some money upfront and then we've got some coming in the payment plan, which I wouldn't have done with someone I didn't trust because obviously, like, as much as someone could have, someone else came into that. You have to make sure you've got the legal documentation to make sure that you're going to get paid either way because otherwise that would be a bit.
Of a. I sometimes think about it, it's like when you're, when you're selling your business and say for arguments, say it's valued at 80,000, I'm like, who has 80,000 sitting in the bank today? Just give you four. You know, I said, I said that to my broker, I was like, who has that money? Because I don't have that money, has that. And he was like, you'd be so surprised. Like you've got people that have come into inheritance, people that are selling their house, people that are like, there's so many different things.
And also they don't have to have the cash, they can literally have a deposit and then they can get funding. They don't have to have the 80 grands or however much money sitting there. And we've ended up doing it part and part and. But that meant it went to the right people as well. So it worked for us. But we were blessed enough to be able to say, well, we can wait for some of that money. Whereas some people need that money to pay off because we paid a lot of the debt off.
Whereas if some people are selling with debt, they need that money to pay off the debt to, to, to leave. So it really depends what position your business is in because some businesses like, they, they won't sell with that. So if you've got debt, but some businesses you can sell with that or use the proceeds to pay off the debt. So you're still getting free of the situation or, you know, to help you. But yeah, yeah, it's a limiting belief that I can identify myself like that.
Oh, who's that kind of money to pay? So it's really interesting to. To break that down and understand that the premises that you're in. Well, at least. What the. Did you. Yeah. So how did you. Did you have to go and ask the landlord for. For permission to. To sell the business? Yeah. So luckily both. Both landlords for both our salons were amazing. I had a really awful experience years ago of a different landlord and I would have hated to do this with him, but they. These guys were so easy.
They said, yeah, no problem, and like, kind of took over the conversations with the buyer and. And went from there. So we hadn't had to do too, but it was a lot simpler. And I'd probably say if you're thinking and you're listening to this and going, I wish I could get out of this. I really want. I don't want to do this anymore. Don't. It's like a price increase. Don't overthink this. It's okay. It's okay to step away. It's okay to pivot. It's okay to go. My time is done.
And it's okay to research these things. And obviously conversations with staff, you need to make sure you have them and. And like, in the right way. But each time I'd be more scared of this than actually I needed to be. And there was a lot of anxiety in this situation that actually didn't need to be there. I. And I wish I hadn't done it confidentially at the start because I. A year before we sold it, we could have probably sold it to her then, and I would have been a year further down the line of feeling more like finding myself without the businesses, because that's been a journey in itself anyway.
So I would just say, like, just don't overthink this. And I'm. I also, if anyone wants to message me, I've had a few messages already. When I announced I sold. There's a lot of us. And sometimes it's a dig secret. You're like, I don't know how to like. But it's okay. It's okay to look at those options. It's okay to have an exit plan. When I went into Dragon's Den, they asked me what my exit plan was. This is normal in businesses. It's normal to have an exit plan.
You know, I had a couple of questions that come up. One of them was the brokers. The, the brokers that you approached to sell your business. Did you feel valued about. Did you feel like they valued your business? Not as in like financially, but they thought that pet grooming was a, a proper business, you know, a business that, that could be sold. Did you feel that you were listened to and respected by, by the brokers? Yeah, I think the broker also really wants to be your friend.
They want you to, they want you to choose them so they wouldn't get very far if they belittled you because you'd be like nah and not you. And then there's a competition out there to get you. But yeah, I definitely felt like valued. I think the thing is, is it's what your accounts say is a lot about how they value it. So as much as you can say that is brilliant or really well known, but if your bottom line isn't there, your bottom line's not there and they will value it with a lower value.
However, at that point you don't have to go with that. If you feel like you want more, put it, you can put it up for more like every. It's like house sales. I, all of the businesses I put up for higher than I actually got because that's, that's general what you do. There's negotiation that is there and, and we, we wanted to make sure it's a fair price for, for them as well. So there is that. That chat to be had and that can fill people of anxiety as well.
But just don't panic about it like just, it's okay to say. You can either remove the conversation and say can we do this by like formally and they can email and then you've got time to respond a letter, you can time to respond or you can just be like it's okay to say let me have a think about it. Can I get back to you? And actually that, that time to pause is really important because you need to make sure you're making the right decision for you.
Yeah. You don't want regrets, do you? And when after you sold the business and you got the money, what kind of taxes are there? Is there any anything different tax wise or there's just income of tax? Yes. So there is a tax but I cannot remember the name of the tax is another question. I'm trying to think what it's called. Is it capital gains? I think it's capital gains. So they work out how much it costs to sell your business. So like the cost of the broker and all of those things and then you pay certain amount.
But they've changed it as they always do. HMRC So I think when we sold the first business it was in one tax year so we got a larger tax free amount and the second year it like halved and so we had to pay tax. But at the end of the day like anything, you have to pay tax on everything. Like I just, rather than seeing it as a another thing, I just thought, you know what, it's fine, it's just, it's what we have to do. So yeah, we had to pay that tax on it.
But it was for us, it was that, that ticket to freedom.
And I, I don't regret it as yet and I don't think I will. I was gonna ask that like, do you, did you have to sort of walk away and then like look back like remove yourself from the social media like from there page? So you didn't have to, you didn't see the updates. You know, don't look at the website. Yeah. And stuff. Yeah. Clean breakaway. And it's also seeing like how someone does it after, like how they evolve and like you're like, that's cool. It's a new way of doing things.
Maybe not how I would do it but that's, that's, that's the whole point. It's not me doing it.
So with, with cools and I, I got quite emotional when it was announced but it wasn't, it was a very confused crying emotion. It was, I'm not happy, I'm not sad, I'm not angry. I didn't know how I felt. But I think it was just a release that it was out there and that it was happening. And like I'm on this journey now of trying to discover who I am without top to tail. I literally took it on when I was 18. I've not known an adult life without top to tail.
So it feels, I feel like a bit emotional now. Even saying that it's weird, it is very strange and I don't think since it happened in November, I don't think I've actually digested. Yeah. Because at the end I wasn't doing too much for it and it was running along. So I haven't digested that it's not my mine anymore and, and I don't have any worries about it. So like I'm still getting the odd message like today the Google, we hadn't changed the Google into her name so she's requested that.
So that was just a quick like, yep, that's hers now. But it's just little things that are still like little tide that we need to just Tie these knots on these little ends. But I didn't have that. Real emotional. I don't like. I went to a play calf, which is opposite the shop today, and I didn't have this tug that is mine. I was kind of like, that's weird. And then just walked into the playoff. It wasn't. I'm. It's not bigger than that for me right now, but I'm still.
But I'm definitely realizing that actually my mental health might not have just been connected to that because I thought, you know, sometimes when you get rid of something or something gains and you're like, I'm gonna feel like a new person. Actually, no, I need to still deal with some things.
Yeah. I took the family through a whole house move and then a few weeks or a month later. Right. Yeah. Nothing's really changed, but it distracted me for several months, you know, going through this process. It was a good move. Yeah, it was a good move. But, yeah, you have that realization that. Or actually that it's not. Nothing has changed. It was just, you know, something has materially has changed, but I still feel the same. Yeah, it is definitely a journey. And it is very strange not not having.
What's really weird, Phil, is when someone asks me what I do, because before, now is always a conversation, and they still conversation starter. Don't get me wrong. But it's like when you said, are you an entrepreneur? It does feel like I've gone down a few rankings because I'm not saying a chain of this. And like, I've got two dog groomings, clothing company and a cat. You know, I. Now I'm like, I'm a cat groomer. I've got a cat grooming set on. And that's it. And. And it's very freeing, but weird.
Yeah. I suppose you just change. I suppose it's changing the language and say, I'm a business owner. Yeah. No. Yeah. Well then sort of saying. And it's interesting that, because I don't know if you ever listened to the podcast I did about ego. Anyway, I didn't know. I have to listen to our ego is beneficial but also detrimental to business. And so if I was talking to you about, you know, having two businesses and stuff, I'd be like, what was that ego that was driving that? Or was that like a plan?
Yeah, completely. Completely. It's. It's definitely like, it's. It's been. What's the word? Humbling. Humbling experience. And I've always, like, when I got really stressed and sick, basically, I was like, what am I chasing here? What am I chasing? And. And I still don't know what that was. And that's why I've got to really be protective here in the Kitty Cat Club because I've said. And I said it in the other podcast. I'm not gonna take on too much. We're gonna stay under the vat threshold. I'm gonna keep it small.
I have also, my personality is not. That's the first question I asked, wasn't it? Yeah. Have you grown your business yet? We have accountability, but since you're hearing your profit. Yeah, it is. It is interesting. And what's. What's also interesting is obviously your values, probably when you're 18, are different to what they are now, but having a family, you know, can really change things for your outlook and, you know, the values that you have on life and what's more important. So I don't, I don't. Like you said, it's.
It's about pivoting. It's about noticing the changes in yourself and, you know, it's about giving yourself credit and just saying it's fine. I've moved on. I've moved on. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we need to be kinder to ourselves and actually allow ourselves to move on and allow ourselves to reflect and not. Not always try and find the fault in our past and actually look at it as, like you said, like a learning curve and these lessons are, like, worth paying. Yeah. Okay. I didn't feel like I had much in my 20s compared to other people, but I really did, like, do well.
I. I really did. I'm proud of myself for what I did. Yeah. With. With some of the money of the sale. I'm going for a month trip with our family to Thailand and Vietnam in a couple of. Well, a couple of months. And to me, I feel like that's. That's the pinnacle. I'm like, so excited to do that because I. I didn't travel much when I was younger because I was just. And I'm shutting the Kitty Cat Club for the whole month, so. And my one of myself members is going to just do the calls and things, but people can wait.
And I am going to enjoy a month off with no responsibility apart from sun, sea, sand and fun and children. Yeah, you know. Yeah, the children. Slight stress of that. Isn't that the actual. Haven't you just hit on, like, one of the key points to being your own boss and running your own business? And a question I ask a lot of people and we had to ask ourselves with our business is who are you running that business for? Are you running it for yourself? Are you running it for your customers?
You know, and hand on heart, a lot of people will probably say, I'm actually probably running it for the customers or, or the customers are running it running me in a way. All you said there was like, that's, that's why you become a business owner in the first place. I'm shutting my business for a month, I'm taking my family away and that's all that matters. Yeah, if only I'd done that every year. I think that I've been a bit more balanced, I think. Yeah, yeah, 100%. I've been a slave to it over the years.
And, and like, whatever you're doing, whatever business in, you've got to run it for you. It has to. Otherwise there's no point. You just go and get a job and take the holiday and, and enjoy being employed without the responsibility. If you're taking this route, you have to take yourself seriously and give yourself. That's that the whole point of the balance, because otherwise it's not worth it. That's it. We said at the very beginning, didn't we? And it's probably a great place to sort of tie it all in.
We said at the very beginning that definition of being an entrepreneur, business owner is, you know, running a business in pursuit of taking the risk, running a business taking the risk in pursuit of profit and put yourself through all those emotions, all that stress, you know, mental health, taking those risks, responsibility, or like you said, what's the point? Unless you can make it work for you and your family. Yeah, 100%. 100%. And I really hope that people take that on board because I think it's so easy to listen to something that is to be inspired and then get back into the rat race.
Like, you need to feel this and actually reevaluate each month, each week, whatever, and go, is this running for me? Is this what I want? Like, what is my end goal here? What is my exit plan? Even if your exit plan is an exit the business, but you're all going to exit one day because we're all going to retire, we're all going to die. Sorry, bring it down to that, but do you know what I mean? Like, we've got to, we've only got one work, one life on this little spinning world.
Like, is. We've got to take that seriously and enjoy life. Because there's definitely been times I've not enjoyed life and what A shame.
So, yeah, I think that's a brilliant place to end it. Yeah. I think, like, let's take this entrepreneurial journey seriously for ourselves, for our mental health. Don't be afraid to tell if it's not the right way for you. Yeah. So what's part three? What's part three? What do you want to talk about, Mel? What are we going to talk about in part three?
What do people want to hear us talk about? Well, I, I think part three should be about the, the sort of rise of. The rise of the cat grooming industry and, you know, the, the different things that you're doing within the cat. Cat grooming industry as well. And maybe we can talk about. I've done a podcast before about the benefits of introducing cat breaming, but we can perhaps go through all that and. Yeah. And chat away. Want to hear more of me waffling on. That's all right.
Always welcome back. I think it is, I think it's helpful for people to hear the story of the Freddy, but because otherwise it's this taboo, isn't it? They think these people are like, oh, they've done really well and what. But actually there's, there's, there's work within this as it's, it's lonely being an entrepreneur and it's hard. Is hard work and let's just lift that, lift that lid and show people what's actually happening and like there are options. Never feel you're trapped, because I've definitely felt trapped and you're not trapped actually.
You're in control, but you just need to take those reins and regain. Re. Rejourney it. Definitely. Definitely. Excellent. Well, another fantastic chat. Thank you for, for joining us. I had you on the, on the verge of tears. You did. Sorry about that. Good luck next time. Third time lucky. It's got to be, you know, like you said, it's got to be real, it's got to be raw, it's got to be beyond like the social media pictures that we see and, and we're not going. If we all just turn up and go, oh yeah, it's fantastic.
And we make this money and we do that and we do this because it's just a false representation of business really, isn't it? Thank you for sharing as usual. You're welcome. Thanks a lot and we'll see you all soon. Thank you. Bye. I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. Please make sure you give us a like or a review to help people find it. The podcast is sponsored by Love. Head over to www.lowpay.com to find out more about their payment soldier.
EPISODE ARCHIVE