From Mobile Groomer to Salon Success – with Phoebe Harris

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Welcome to the Pet Grooming Business Podcast with me, Bill Betts, where we give practical business advice to help you grow your pet grooming business. This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay, the low rate payment app that gives you more. So without further ado, let's get going.

All right, welcome, everyone. Welcome to our next episode of the podcast and today I am joined by client and friend, Phoebe from Sitting Pretty Dog Grooming. How are you, Phoebe? I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having me on. And this is a day off, is it? Day off in the week, Yep. Excellent. What do you do on your days off, apart from sit on podcasts?

I've had a horse riding lesson this morning on my horse. Nice. Two picks were field quite a bit of a lion, so, yeah, I'll probably take the dog for a nice walk later.

It's generally what I tend to do. How old's your horse? How old is she? Yeah. Eight. Oh, plenty of years to be taking her on to shows. And are you looking at like, cross country competitions, that sort of stuff?

No, no, we are very much happy Hackers, I think, is the word. I've done a couple of dressage tests, but she's actually a bit too small for me, if I'm honest, so she didn't grow when she was supposed to. So I try not to go to too many shows because.

And I don't have transport either, but we have fun. There's an instructor on our yard, so we have lessons. Put jumps up my daughter, she's technically my daughter's, so we do a lot around that. But it gets you out the house, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely, yeah. And spending time with a moody teenager that probably wouldn't otherwise be spending time with me. They're bribing her with a horse. Come on. Come and spend some time with me. But it's like he doesn't realise that, does she? No. Excellent. Well, we've got.

We have got a horse, but she's very old, so we don't ride her anymore, unfortunately. So we're just looking after her in retirement. Yeah, no, I've, I. I've wanted a horse probably since I was about eight and never, ever had the opportunity. And then during COVID I just. I just did it and I had to wait. I had to wait because I'm quite short. I had to wait for my daughter to grow a little bit so that we could share her and then as. So I got her when, when My daughter was 11.

So, yeah, I got her in November 2020. Right. Wow. Excellent. And you know, you've, you've, you've got that down to a fine art with like running your, running your horse and running your business or running your business, running your horse.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just part of daily routine for me. It's, I live 10 minutes from my yard and then my work is a, My salon is a further 10 minutes along the same road. So it's really easy to just, I just get up a little bit earlier and then stop on my way to work, do her and then carry on on my way to the salon. Yeah. And perhaps we'll talk about it a bit later around how you're now adjusting your business around, you know, the, the, the horse and the pet ownership and, and life.

So we can talk about that. But so I, I've just checked and you've been in the, the pet passion to profit world since September, September 2023. So 2. Just over two years now.

Is it green? First I joined. Yeah, I remember you walking up to me just going, right, Bill, I need to join your program. I think we'd been chatting anyway over a messenger, hadn't we? And it was just like, okay, yeah, we could sort that out. It's not, it's not something that I always expect people just to walk up to me and go, oh, hi, I'm Phoebe and I need to join my. Join your program. I'm like, yeah, not prepared for this. But yeah, I mean, that's not how everyone does it.

So.

First of all, let's just go back a bit before we talk about you joining. Joining us. Like, what was your journey into. Into pet grooming? Did you fall into it? Was it something that you always wanted to do? Did you know much about it before you started? How did you get into pet grooming?

So I knew absolutely nothing about it, really. I don't even think I knew that things like cockapoos existed.

I come from me and my family as when I was a teenager, we bred and showed Great Danes.

So I've done the whole showing thing at crafts.

And so I was a bit more into, you know, I only really knew about sort of kennel club standard breeds. Didn't know anything about all of these mixed breeds. So I came from that world and growing up, I wanted to be a range of things, but they were all animal related. I toyed with vet, but I wasn't really clever enough to be a vet animal behaviorist. I even thought about joining either the armed forces or the police as a dog handler. Like anything around dogs Mostly animal behaviorist, you know, that sort of thing.

I was playing around with that went to university to do animal management and welfare.

But I actually found out I was pregnant when I was 18 and I was five months gone so there was absolutely nothing I was doing about that.

So I had to leave university and sort that out, which is fine, all turned out all good. But then I kind of just took on any jobs that worked around a young child, anything I could really. So I've done Curry, Sainsbury's.

Then when I went for a full time job I just took the only ones I sort of could. So it was a lot of admin based bit sales processing, ended up in the building trade and you know, as my daughter was getting a little bit older, I was missing out on dropping off at school, I was missing out on the school gate. I was never went to any school plays, anything like that. And I was just getting really fed up of it. I didn't, I didn't love my job, it paid the bills.

I turned up, I did it. But I just kind of thought I, I want more out of life than this. And so one day in a meeting at work I just was like, nah, here's my notice. And I went home and told my then partner, my daughter's dad, and was like, yes, I need to come up. With something without even having a, without having a plan. You just like no, I'm done, no I'm off. No plan at all. I had, you know, other than running my own business, that was the only plan I had because you know, I felt that was the way I was going to get to do the school plays and the drop offs and all that sort of stuff that I wanted to do.

And we, we live quite rurally in little pretty villages. The community is quite small. My daughter went to a tiny little school. I think there was only about 70 kids in the whole school so it was a tight knit community and I wanted to be in there, you know, I wanted, I didn't want to be the girl that just dropped off and ran and nobody knew who they were.

So I basically just wrote a list of all the things I could do. But you know, I wanted to go, well you love, you always wanted to do animals.

Didn't really know a thing about dog grooming. I say having Great Danes, they don't really need grooming.

And that's all I'd really had all my life is short haired dogs. You know we did gave him a bit of a hose before a show maybe. So I didn't I don't think I even realized how big of an industry it was. So this was in. Yeah, I was gonna say what year? 2017. Right. I was gonna say, what sort of year were you looking? 2017. Yeah, yeah, 2017. I did it. I sort of started.

My mum was desperate for me to be a nail tech and I can't tell you how much I should not be a nail tech and I'm nowhere near artsy enough to do that. But that thought then turned into, well, not that, but something with dogs.

So I. I came up with dog grooming. My granny had a springer that maybe used to go and get clipped off every now and again, but I had no. No money, no savings, just my last paycheck, so. So I was like, well, I'm obviously not going to be able to just get a salon or whatever again. I live really rurally, there's no big town or anything, so a van it was. And so I decided to be a mobile groomer.

You know. Did you do any research? I obviously chat GDP doesn't. Wasn't around then, but. Did you look up people's websites? Did you do a taste today, anything like that?

I. I looked at a few people's websites. There was a lady operating in Peterborough at the time that was quite busy mobile. I think she may have been the only one. She's moved away now and doesn't do it anymore, but I think she was the only one. And then I just looked at a couple of other salons around.

But people's websites are quite basic. There wasn't a lot of information.

I looked at doing City and guilds and things like that, and it was very, very expensive.

And so I actually found a course where you did it all online, but then they offered you two weeks of experience in a salon. So I quite liked the idea of that because it gave me a taster. I mean, it didn't really, because two weeks is nothing and I had to drive to Essex every day for two weeks.

But it was great. I took my puppy with me that I hadn't been able to have while I was working full time and I was like, this is amazing, there's dogs everywhere.

Until they did the anal gland bit. And then I was like. And.

But, yeah, I mean, that was a very busy salon. They had students, they had apprentices, walls and walls of crates, you know, so it was a bit different to the mobile that I was going to do, but they taught me how to wash a dog, they taught me how to kip off, you know, I Thought, how hard can it be? That's kind of what I thought. And I did end up getting a loan. It was like a business startup loan, I think. I can't remember who I did it through, but it was specifically for new business startups and that bought me my van and the bath and all the bits and pieces.

This podcast is sponsored by Low Pay. Low pay is half the price of sum up and Zettle. So you keep more of the money that you earn. Rate starts at 0.79%. What did you think about the. The business side of things? Like, did you have an idea about how much you were going to earn? Did you obviously had a loan to pay off for the van, but did you have an idea like I'm going to. How many dogs you're going to do and how much you're going to charge?

No. No idea really.

For, for the loan, I did have to produce a.

What's the word? Business plan. Business plan. And they did ask for like a matrix of projected sales. But I mean, I just made it up because I have no idea. I literally made it up because how could I have possibly known how busy I was going to be? I sort of wrote down, you know, if I found anybody else's prices online. I looked at them and I asked a few friends and family, but because they were friends and family, they. They didn't really know what they were doing saying either.

But yeah, no idea. And I, I completely underestimated travel time, you know, in my head. And I, I also underestimated how long dogs would take me, you know, as a very, very new groomer, A. You get a lot of the dogs that nobody else wants, so you get the nasty ones and the matted ones. Not all of them, but you do tend to, don't you? And also I was completely brand new and I perhaps didn't invest in the best equipment because I didn't have that much money and I didn't know anything about the equipment either.

To me, one clipper was just as good as the other. And you know, I was taking sort of two and a half hours to groom a dog. Desperately dematting because I wanted the customers to be happy. And then I'd be like, oh, now I've got to drive to this other town. You know, I didn't, I was very much just take anybody on that you could because they're going to pay you. It doesn't matter if they're 20 miles apart. It's better than no work. So I just literally, and, and at the time you know, you're thinking, great, I'm a new business and these people want to use me.

You're getting the bookings in, you're getting the bookings in. Which was massaging the, massaging the ego, I suppose. You're like, oh, everyone loves me and everyone wants to work with me. Exactly.

Which now we know is not the case necessarily.

But yeah, completely winging it, just, just taking every customer, whatever day it was, wherever it was, just jump in the van and just go and do it. And obviously you left, you left your full time employment because you had a desire to be more with your, with your little one and go to plays and do the school run. Did you actually find you could do that by being a mobile groomer or did you find you built your own prison again?

I mean, I was. Because that was kind of my reason, I suppose. I did make sure I did start taking her to school every day. I didn't pick her up, but I did make sure that I started after, after school time.

But I used to sort of make the mistake of putting my last dog or I, I ended up putting my last dog quite far away from my house and then I'd be like, oh, God, after I've done this dog, you know what, half past four, I've still got 20 miles to drive before I even get home. Which I didn't think about at all really.

But it, it did, it did mean I could block out time in the diary and go to sports day and school players. So I did do that.

I was quite fortunate at the time that Sphere's dad did earn, and still does earn quite well. So I was lucky in the sense of, yes, I had to pay that loan, but essentially he gave me a bit of a free pass to not contribute as much towards the house, which I can appreciate now. I don't know if I did at the time, but I can appreciate it now.

Okay. How long were you out grooming a mobile groomer? How long did you last for?

Well, if I'm honest, I'd probably still be going had I have not had this opportunity. There was a salon, which is now my salon, about 10 minutes from my house, 15 tops, where the lady there was wanting to retire, move away, retire, and her daughter helped her, who never actually wanted to be a dog groomer. And so they were selling the shop, the whole kit and caboodle, everything.

And she'd seen my van whizzing around and she just called me out of the blue. They were obviously looking to sell it and so she just Called me out of the blue and was like, do you want to buy it? And it seemed like the next step to what you want to do. I'd had one summer where my van was in the garage for like three weeks and I was going to people's houses in my classic Mini, like. And I thought actually, yeah, and I won't be cold in the winter and I won't be hot in the summer and I won't be wasting time going to people.

So I, I thought of all of the comms that I had. I didn't really think of the pros that I had. I just thought, yes, great, let's do it.

So I ended up getting another loan and like amalgamating the two to buy this salon. And then when I got there, all of the equipment was crap. I needed to get rid of all of it, the bath, everything. It was awful.

Did you not go and see it like before you bought? I, I had the rose tinted glasses on. You know, I was just like, this would be amazing.

But I also, I came up with this plan at the time that I was going to run both, which is a silly thing to do. So I hired a girl to be a groomer in there full time and then I would do half in the salon and half mobile. That didn't last very long. So I think I was mobile solely for about a year and a bit. So I think I started in the August and then the following December is when I bought the salon. And then I tried to run both for about six months, I think, but it was just too much.

I couldn't, I couldn't get Rick get round it in my head trying to be her boss in the salon but also try to be the groomer in the van. And you know, sometimes I'd sort of resent the fact that I had this solemn. But I was the one out in the van getting cold and dealing with all that and not having a toilet and all that jazz. So in the end I sold the van and went into the salon full time.

I think having known you for a couple of years now and listening to this story, you know, because I don't know all the ins and outs, but you're kind of feet first kind of person, aren't you? You're like, jump into stuff and then, oh, kind of like worry about it afterwards, work it all out afterwards. And something that I suppose we've been working on over the last year or so is to actually just slow you down a bit and like start really sort of thinking about the bigger, bigger picture.

Like when you. When you took that lady on as a groomer in the salon, did you look at, like, how much it cost you? Like the tax, the national insurance, the hours, hourly rate, things like that?

No, I essentially just paid her whatever she wanted to be paid. We are still really good friends today. She doesn't work for me anymore, but we're really good friends and we got on really well. So I did kind of just pay her whatever she wanted and then just made sure I got enough dogs in, you know, after the fact to make sure. And I had this mantra in my head that she only needed to pay for herself. But of course, that's not true because like you say, there's so many other factors.

Your tax, your national insurance, all of that. And it also is pointless than just paying for themselves because then you're not actually making money. May as well not be there. But in my head, I just had, as long as she pays for herself, it doesn't matter. But it doesn't work like that. So, no, I didn't work any of that out. I just sort of thought, yeah, that sounds like an all right rage, and went with it. But I think thinking back then, this must have been where you got in contact with us, because it was around this time, I think, that we started chatting.

And I remember walking around the field myself, like picking up horse poo, chatting to you on the phone, going, okay, okay, you got this going on. Okay, right, yeah, let's. Have you thought about this?

Don't know if it was then or if it was. So the lady left me go to pets. Huh? You might have had another employee after that. No, no, it's the same girl. So she. She left me to go to pets at home.

I think she thought, I know, when I sold my van, she thought there wouldn't be enough for two of us. And so she went, but she hated it there, which, fine. And so. And I didn't like being on my own. I was struggling. It was quite lonely to be on your own all day with dogs. And so. And we kept in touch and, you know, eventually we came to come back on a higher wage, but fine, I was earning, so it was okay.

And then she went on maternity, and I think that's when I started talking to you, because I was like, oh, what do I do now? You know, because then there was a bit of time, obviously, maybe about eight months. And then she went on. Then she said she was pregnant.

And then when she went on maternity, I obviously had to half the amount of dogs we were taking in because there was only two of us in the first place, and going down to one, I'm obviously half capacity. So then when she came back, they'd all left and I really struggled to get the same level of dogs back in and in. It's a shame. It's a real shame. But at the time, I didn't know what to do. I couldn't afford her, you know, I was not paying myself so that I could pay her, and I just didn't know what to do.

My head was just an absolute spin. Everything I'd like, you say, I'd sort of jumped into everything feet first without really thinking about stuff, and then I'd literally hit a brick wall and was like, I now don't know what to do, because I think that also coincided with me and my ex splitting up. So then I had a whole house to pay for by myself, a whole car to pay for by myself. You know, literally everything was on me. So that's when I needed you. That's when we started chatting.

Yeah, I think so. So what was the. What was the salon like then? You know, were you doing loads of dogs a day? Do you remember your sort of pricing was. And obviously you said you weren't. You weren't really earning any money for yourself.

No. So I. The salon, I think we were probably doing about eight dogs a day.

We literally just booked a dog in for us to do. So she would do a dog, I'd do a dog.

You know, there wasn't sort of you bath this. Well, you know, we just. We did one dog and she did one dog. So I think he was about eight, probably.

I think. I reckon a medium cockapoo was probably 40 to 45 pounds. Probably.

Did you have any sort of. Were you looking at your numbers at all? Were you working out what you were taking each day, each week, each month? I was looking at it, but only in a very passive sort. I wasn't actually doing anything about it. Do you see what I mean? Like, again, I was just taking any dog that came and just being like, yep, great, we need the money. Come on, come on. And then I'd. I'd just take it as well. That's what we've done. There was no sort of proactive, I need more money than this.

I just took it as that's what we've got. So that's what you're gonna have to deal with. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose, like you were saying, behind the scenes, obviously things weren't going great in your personal relationship, were you starting to build debt up as well? You, I think you had. Oh, yeah, 100.

Just before me and my ex split up, I'd gone out and got an Audi on finance, which I should not have done, but.

And.

Yeah, I. I guess I lent on him more than I thought I did financially. So that then when it ended, I was like, oh my God, I've actually got to pay for everything. And I started, you know, buying normal everyday things on a credit card but not paying it back off, you know, because I was like, well, I need fuel. So what are you going to do? You're just going to have to put it on a credit card. Because I obviously needed to make sure she was paid.

We had shampoo, we had everything we needed in the salon, and I just had to pick up the rest of it. Essentially. I wasn't really paying. I wasn't paying myself. I just scooped up the dregs. And yeah, when I needed fuel, it was, well, you're gonna have to put it on a credit card. I think I even took out a credit card specifically because I was like, you can't afford life right now. Max that out. And has absolutely no way of paying off other than the very minimum payments.

And, you know, when that's maxed out, you're literally like, well, what am I going to do now? But never.

It never actually occurred to me weirdly that I needed to up my prices. I just thought, just two more dogs.

It didn't even occur to me. Absolutely. It was just not on my radar to even do that. Yeah. And I think something I always say, like to the, to the group, when, when we get stressed and things become overwhelming, we start to lose that creative side thinking. Our brain starts to shut down because we're, we're getting so used. We're getting so, like, focused on the stress and the, the worry and anxiety that the creative side of our brain just like, it's nowhere to be seen. So, like the, the side of your brain, the rational side of your brain, that's going, well, you could put your prices up or you could do this or you could do that.

It's, well, it's well shut off because you're too busy worrying about how am I going to afford food? And you know, and I think, is it, is it right in sort of saying that we. You did get to these points where you're like, how can I afford, well, credit card? How can I afford to. To put food on the table and fuel and stuff?

Yeah, I Think at that point before I joined the program. But you and I were talking, you said something to me, and I think it was something along the lines of, which is worse, telling your customers your prices are going up, you not being able to feed your child. And I needed to hear that at that point because that, that really put it into perspective because like you say, your brain just shuts off. You're just like, oh, my God, panic. And it just was like, you have got to do this because what choice have you got?

You know, I was wondering when you. Said, what choice do you have? Why. What stopped you from just closing the business and going, getting a job? You know, that was a choice, wasn't it? Did you think, actually, there is more to this, I could make more of this?

In all honesty, it never occurred to me during stubbornness. I will make this work, maybe. Yeah, it never ever occurred to me. I think I'm not great with being employed. I think I've been fired from, like, three jobs before and I walked out of the other two. You know, I'm not. I'm not a great one for direction. I think I obviously had the loans as well that I took out to buy the salon and to, you know, sort all this out. And it, yeah, didn't even occur to me.

Maybe it is stubbornness deep down, but.

Don't know. Yeah, I think by the time we started working together, I think you had to make the hard decision to make your employee redundant and. And they left so that you could start earning some money for yourself. But by the time you got there, you were in quite a poor position when it came to debt and stuff, weren't you? Yes. Yeah. So the. Yeah, the. The journey now really is building up enough so that I can clear all of that. Yeah. Because, look, I'd literally maxed out credit cards.

I had swapped the car for a cheaper one, but it was still on finance because I obviously hadn't paid the other one off. I just dumped all the equity onto another one.

And, yeah, still. Still on my own, so. Still everything is down to me. So, yeah, it was. Looking back now, really, it's. It's one of those kind of tipping points in your life where you think it's now or. Or never, you know, so, yeah, no. And how hard was it making that decision to get that help? Because obviously there's a financial cost to working with us, you know, was it like, oh, I don't know if I can afford it or can I afford not to do it?

You know, how hard was that?

Definitely Definitely. I didn't think I could afford it. I was very anti, sort of adding more to my outgoings, regardless of how good it might be. In my head. I was just like, you cannot add another outgoing. And I think in all honesty, what it was is you'd kind of helped me so much already without me giving you a penny. And I just was like, you owe it to both yourself and this man to, to go and do this properly. And that's kind of why I was very direct when I just walked up to your stand because we'd already had all these conversations.

I was listening to your podcasts. I'd been a member of the group, I think, since COVID I don't think I knew it was you kind of behind it, if you like.

But I was, yeah, part of the group for a long time and I just thought everything in the universe was telling me this is the right thing to do and you need, you need this help now. I think Martin said, just go and, just go and sign up with him. Yeah, yeah. I mean he, he is, he very much is also a doer without really thinking much about it as well. So I am sometimes cautious when he says things like that. But yeah, we literally had you on YouTube on the projector in the bedroom one night.

He was like, come on, you need to listen to him. Get him on.

And yeah, I think that was it. I just strolled up to you and was like, sign me up, because I've turned to every other avenue and this is what I need. I think I'd. Before I spoke to you, I'd had a couple of one to ones with Katie Dowding.

Yeah, because I bought her pricing calculator thing because again, I was just like, what do I do? How do I do this? And yeah, she also said, you know, you're knackered, you're burnt out, you're doing every dog under the sun. You need to fix it. And then you came in and offered, offered all of this. And I have to say, as well, I didn't, I think as well at the time, it's, it's. You think to yourself you can't add another outgoing. But I also didn't realize how in depth the program is or I think I thought maybe I just got a few one to ones with you, a few worksheets, you know, a bit of support, I think, you know, until I started speaking to you more and realizing how much more to it there was and you know, the, the how ongoing it is as well.

You don't just do it for a bit and then off you go, you know, crack on. It's, there's so much more to it than that, which at the time I don't think I realized. And so you don't necessarily see the value, you just see this big outgoing that you're adding to when you're already struggling. Yeah. And I think what was important with yourself, you know, you could come along and by all means. And we have done, we've helped you to put your prices up and you know, that is part of the program.

But actually we could help you put your prices up and put your prices up. And put your prices up. But if we didn't fix some of the root causes of what was going on, then you would just be in this endless sort of cycle of, you know, selling time for money, so working hard, earning more money, but behind the scenes spending hard, spending more money. And so, you know, with yourself and with quite a few others, you know, we look at the whole sort of person in the whole business.

So yeah, like you said, it's more than just like I just pick prices up.

Yeah, I mean my, my entire, both, both practically and mindset wise around money is completely 360 to now, you know, taking ideas from other people but also know, listening to people like, like Fanny, you know, complete experts around money that unlock all this stuff that you, you just have no idea about, you know, and about how to handle your money, you know, and how to categorize it and sort it. And I can't believe that yes I have put my prices up and yes I am earning more, but little things like I saved up to buy a new laptop two years ago I'd have just stuck it on finance because I'm like, well, I don't have the money and I'm never going to be able to afford the money.

Money just sort of came in and went out. It didn't, it didn't have a purpose, it didn't really have a job and I didn't, you know, I'd sort of go, oh well, you know, that's how many dogs I've got. So that's what I've got. You know, um, there was so much, so much more to it than that. And also one of the biggest things I'm sure you remember, it's easy to say, just put your prices up. And some people can, some, some people can just go, yeah, sure, I'll knock everybody up.

20 quid. I was not one of those people. I myself and a lot of the other, some other members as well you know, have a real, had. Sorry, A real, real deep fear. Deep, deep fear of putting prices up and standing in front of customers and saying. And there's all sorts of reasons why, which is explored on the program. Different people have different reasons why.

But the amount of work that Louise, yourself, Robyn, have put into me to get me over that. I remember one specific call.

You must have known about it. I was literally crying tears about having to ask a lady with a Labrador and a dachshund whether she wanted to add on a mud bath and teeth cleaning. She was in the next day and Robin literally kicked me out of the meeting and said, phone her now and tell her or ask her to have these things. I didn't want to do it. I literally was crying because I could not pick up the phone to this customer and ask her essentially to spend more money.

But because there's more to it than that. I wasn't asking her to spend money. I was asking her if a mud bath would help her Labrador, which of course it would. The consequence of that is she pays me for it. But I just, honestly, I froze. I was, you know, I think, I'm sure you remember my heart, my heart. Was in my mouth. You know, this, this is a pivotal moment here. Phoebe's, Phoebe's just like come off the call and I'm like, bloody hell, Phoebe. Please, like, please phone her, but also please say yes to the month because this is like pivoting.

This is mindset, make or break. Yeah. And never, ever, ever would I have called her or even asked her about it when she came, had Robin not have made me. And he can be a bit like that, amazing. But sometimes you need that kick up the ass, don't you? And that is what happened. I called her and she added teeth cleaning to both dogs and the mud bath for the Labrador. I can't remember the exact figures. I don't know if you. I'm sure you won't be able to, but.75.

Yeah, it, it, I think it went to over a hundred, didn't it? I think it went, I think it was like a 70 pound groom up to 120 or something like that. It was crazy mental.

And yeah, I went back on the call and was like, I did it. And she said yes. And yeah, that will probably stay with me for a very long time. Like you say, a real pivotal moment of. I mean, I was, you know, I was actually having one to one lessons with Louise to try and get me to push through all of this fear.

I still have a wobble every now and again. I do still have a wobble. I'm. One of the other things we implemented was those invoice things. That was your suggestion changed my life, literally. And it's, it's not going to work for everybody. I might be unique in that, that works for me where I actually break. So I actually break down because I had a real fear around this big number of saying to a Customer, that'll be 70 pound, please. I just couldn't do it. It would not come out of my mouth.

I was literally just pushing the card machine at them and closing my eyes and be like, ego, not the way to do it. And so your idea to get me over this was to actually have me write out an invoice of this is how much the bath costs, this is how much the groom costs, this is how much the nails cost and break it down. And I don't care if it helps the customer or not. It helped me because it helped me justify how I got to that 70 pound number.

Because in my head, just shoving 70 pounds at somebody that isn't a groomer doesn't know what's involved. They just turn up, their dog looks nice and it smells nice and they go home, they don't know what's involved. And so it really helps me to break down. And then when a customer, because I don't like the confrontation bit, if a customer says, well, that's a lot of money. And you say, but look at all of the things I've done. Let's break it down. Yeah, in that hour and a half or whatever it is.

And yeah, it really, really helps me. I think we'd probably worked with you for. I think me and Louise had a little catch up and we like been working with you for eight months, you know, and things weren't really. Nothing was really changing. We kind of felt like we just, we were going around in that cycle of like, Phoebe's in a lot of pain because of her debt and she needs to earn more, but she knows what she needs to do. But it was like the physical price just couldn't come out of your mouth.

You know, you had it in your head. And I think this was causing a lot of frustration and upset as well with you where you had it in your head, you're a very intelligent person. You knew exactly what you had to do. You had the spreadsheets, you had the targets, you knew know, you knew you could do your job, you knew what you needed to earn to start making an impact on your home life. And Stuff, but it just wouldn't come out of your mouth no matter how much we said, like practice, say it, say in the mirror, say it out loud.

When, when you had that customer in front of you, it just wasn't, wasn't happening, was it? So, so I, I, I remember, I don't know if I was doing the horses again. I get a lot of ideas whilst doing the horses and pooper kin, but something that we did as a business when we first opened, we used to give invoice with the prices on. So I thought give it a go. So I remember coming into my office and designing you an invoice and, and I, I wasn't going to allow you to procrastinate on this and I wasn't going to allow you to go, oh, but I can't afford to print them.

And so I actually put my hand in my pocket and sent you a pack of invoices and said, right, Phoebe, yeah, issued. And I, I've replenished them twice since. Same, a four and a five. Yeah, that's what you get for trying to get it cheaper. But, but the beauty of it, like, and you know, it's great to have these ideas and it's great to, to see you move forward, but the, the thing that matters the most is you actually embraced it and you did it. You, you said, right, I've got these.

And you didn't procrastinate, you didn't like, oh, I don't know if I can do it. You just went with it and you implemented it and look where you are now. Yeah, you know, that's what matters, isn't it? Yeah, I'm still, I must, I'm still not great. I almost, I almost shove the invoice at them now rather than the card machine, but at least it gives them the opportunity to look at it. But also I feel so much better when they do question it. So it's okay because I'm prepared for that now.

But yeah, I think game changer, absolute game changer. Yeah, definitely. And you know, hats off for you to actually implementing it as well. So tell us a little bit about your prices. Can you remember what your prices were like? What caused the fear of asking for more money? But also where were your prices when you joined us? Can you remember?

Or were you doing like masses of dogs to get the money that you, that you needed to earn? I was doing masses of dogs.

I'm trying to think 20, 23, did you say?

I want to say there wasn't a lot over 50 pound it would have to be a really big dog for it to be over 50 pound.

Okay, here we go. So I'm thinking I probably had.

Yeah, probably 45, 50 for most, most dogs.

So you're in the cycle really, of doing volume, like having to do lots of dogs to earn, to earn the money that you needed. Yeah. And it is, it is a very physical job and it can be a very frustrating job as well. And if you're just doing dog after dog after dog after dog, especially if, you know, you get one that's not as cooperative or whatever, it really, really drains you and really takes it out of you. And all you're thinking is just one more dog, one more dog.

You know, you're just slogging through. But if you've got higher prices, you don't need to rush the dogs, you don't need to be like, right, get the next one in, get the next one in quick, get that in the bath, get that dried. You know, you can take your time with the dogs and that then enables you to offer that as better customer service. You know, I've, apart from, obviously, when I've had staff, I've always been one to one, if you like, but I'm not going to lie, I was rushing them because I was like, well, you've got to get the next one in, you know, and that's not how I wanted to operate.

And I had a problem last year with my wrists. They just, the doctor thought it was the start of carpal tunnel and I had to wear a wrist brace on both wrists all night, every night, got up in the morning, couldn't move it, my back was shot, you know, and I just kept plowing through because I just thought, well, you just have to get these dogs because you have to earn the money.

Yeah, way to go. You had a lot of financial pressure around behind the scenes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100. Yeah. And give us a flavor of your prices sort of now, nowadays, and the sort of number of dogs that you're having to do.

So it does vary because I work different hours on different days around when I have my daughter. So when I've got her, I work 9 till 4ish, and I do 4 dogs.

And then in my longer weeks, again, it varies, but I tend to work sort of 9 till 5:30 and I probably do more like 5 or 6 dogs, depending on what they're having. Of course, you know, if some of them are having teeth, then that obviously means I potentially don't have to do the extra dog. Or if one is just having teeth. It counts as a sixth dog, but I haven't groomed it, so that's great. I also now do a thing where I make sure that my last dog is either a bath or a teeth clean or nails.

So that at the end of the day when I'm tired and I've sort of run out of energy, I've got a nice, nice little teeth clean or whatever to ease me back down, which is nice, but because it's still, still good money, but you're not having to literally do a whole full groom.

So I think my cockapoos now, I think are 70, I think because I break mine down as well. If they don't have nails, then it's five pound cheaper. But that's fine because I haven't done the job.

What else have I got? My little. My Shih Tzu's and my lazas are 58.

I think that's good. And you know, when, when you've been doing these price increases, there's also always a, always a lot of fear around losing customers. Is that something that you've, you've come across? Did you lose a lot of your client base when you put your prices up? Do you get a lot of people saying no when you're, when you're quoting prices over the phone and stuff?

Have lost some. Not nowhere near as many as I probably thought I would, but I also didn't mind when some of them went, you know, it almost was like, okay, good, you can go. Because it. Then it opened up spaces for, for new customers that I wouldn't, I'd have, I never used to answer my phone because I'd be like, well, I've got no space for you, so there's no point even talking to you.

People used to go on my website and try and book now and they'd be like, oh, you had no space. So I just, I just got out of it, you know.

And these new people don't know what you used to charge. So as long as they're happy with it from the off, that's what the price is. They're a lot better customers in a way because they're already happy with that price. Whereas some of the older ones that, you know, may have been through four or five smaller price increases are like, well, hang on a minute, why are you charging? Why has it gone from 45 to 70 in all this time or whatever when you're essentially doing the same job?

Because they are used to it, but it's because you were too Cheap in the first place, not because the job wasn't worth it then or whatever.

So, yes, it's crazy. I've taken on loads more dogs. Loads more nice dogs.

Well, puppy packages are going mental as well at the moment. I don't know if it's puppy buying season, but I think I've signed up like six in the last month, which obviously, hopefully they'll stay with me. So. So before we, before we joined the call, you told me about your puppy package. Like your puppy package. What were you selling that for then?

Yeah, I found. I found my old notebook from when I was playing with prices when I first started. And I obviously toyed with the idea of a puppy package at the time. And I've written a note saying four sessions to get the dog used to being in the van for £48.

For four or per session? For all four. Wow. Yeah. And what are you selling them for now? 150. Excellent. If I'm honest. Probably needs to go up because I'm so. They're selling like hotcakes. So if you've had that many yeses, then, yeah, it's time for a little nudge up, isn't it? People love it. I think the amount of people that have specifically chosen me. I actually had a lady tell me this. She driven about, well, from the center of Peterborough, which I know doesn't mean anything to you, but it's quite a long way.

She'll have passed a lot of groomers to get to me from there. And it's only a Labrador as well. It doesn't even need a haircut. And she said, I've come to you because in your email you sounded like you actually cared about my dog and about getting it used to grooming and all of that. And you actually asked me his name and when I got him and all of that stuff, whereas she said, everybody asked, the message, just gave me a price. And I thought, you know, at the point that she's already decided she wants to come to me no matter what the price is.

And I've had another couple that, you know, when I've done the first session and the first session in the puppy package, I don't do anything. I do not. They just. The dog just runs around and I just chat to the owner, have a cuddle with the dog. It doesn't go on the table, it doesn't do anything. It just sniffs about.

And I, you know, I explained that to the customers that that's what I'm doing in the first session and they're like, no, no, it's perfect. This is exactly what I want for my dog. You know, we really want them to be okay with being groomed.

You know, people have just spent a lot of money on a puppy. They want to get it right, you know, and they want to keep spending money on that puppy, especially when it's something like a poodle cross that's going to need grooming for the rest of its life, you know, And I think that that is the right time to grab people.

You're a professional dog groomer, they're offering a professional service and you're giving them lots and lots of value when they're making their inquiries and when they're bringing the actual.

When they're bringing their, their pet in. So your, the question you're asking them is how much were they willing to pay for that? And as you said, like, they're willing to pay for that value. They're willing to pay for the expertise that you offer. They're willing to pay for you to look after their, their, their new dog and help them get used to grooming. Because it's a whole life of grooming ahead of it. Yeah. And then, you know, like I say, you'll keep that dog hopefully for the rest of his life.

That's lovely. And be better behave when he goes through it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've got a bit of a. I've got a weight limit on what dogs I'll groom just because I'm small. And if they decide they're not getting in the bath, I cannot lift them in on my own. So I've got a weight limit of. I think it's 32 kilos. However, I do a Bouvier and I've done him since he was literally 10 weeks old. And he's allowed in because he jumps on the table, he hops in and out of the bath, he turns when I tell him to, he stands when I tell him to, you know, and that's the beauty of it, because he's not messing me about.

He's not refusing to get in. He's not making my life difficult. So. And that's because. Or I believe that's because I've been grooming him. He's eight now, so.

Yeah, well, you're used to your, your processes and your systems. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

With all the work that you've been doing on your, on your business, how has this rubbed off and affected your personal life and, and how you, how you live your life and, and obviously, more importantly, like your Debt and how you manage your money going forwards.

Well, massively. I think it's not just about earning more money because anybody, essentially anybody can earn more money, but it's also what you do with it afterwards and putting systems in place so that every. I love this, but every pound has a purpose. You know, it's not just sitting in your account where you can buy a coffee with it or whatever. You know, if you want to buy a coffee or if I want to buy a coffee, I have to take it out of the food pot.

And if there's nothing in the food pot, I'm not having a coffee. You know, there's very rarely not anything in the food pot, but do you see what I mean? Like, instead of just having it floating about where you can spend it on anything, and then you go, oh, I've got no money. Everything has a place to be. And I had no idea how to structure that. I didn't know. I also didn't know, you know, about having a buffer or anything like that, because I think Robin talks about having, is it three months worth of buffer in there, which I'm not there yet.

I'm still building it, but prior to this, didn't even have one, you know, so when things did go wrong, like a washing machine breaking or needing new tires on the car, it had to go on a credit card. I had to ask Mum and Dad, whatever. Whereas now there's systems in place so that I don't panic about things like that. And because I'm charging higher, I'm not even really noticing that that's being siphoned off and then it's there and ready, you know, I used to only put 40 quid in my car a week because that was all I had.

You know, it was all right, someone's paid you 40, chuck it in your car. Whereas now I've got £200 sat in a car pot if my tires go. Because I love hitting curbs.

I think it's taken you from being. And, you know, a lot of us are like this because we don't. I don't know about you, but we weren't really taught much growing up about finances and managing your money and budgeting. And we were discussing this before the podcast. We live in the uk, we live in a society that's very much debt based, you know, you don't have a lot of people on the TV talking about savings accounts, do you? It's all about buy this, buy that. You know, look at your wonderful life with your wonderful car and your Wonderful house and your wonderful gazebo and your wonderful bed linening and stuff like that.

No one's actually saying, you know, look at your miserable life with your miserable debt and your miserable credit cards and. Because that's how our economy in the UK is built, is built on, you know, banks lending money and us paying interest on it. So I'm going into the system and I, you know, we fall into that system and well and truly. So I suppose we've taken you from being a reactive person with your finances and a spender, like, a reactive spender, like, ties are gone, I need that money, or I need food shopping, so I put it on the credit card.

To a more proactive. Proactive stance. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a very accurate thing. I am very reactive and I am like, you say, feet first, I kind of go, oh, what do I do? And, yeah, this, the whole program has taught me, well, to be more mindful for a start, but also to slow down and think outside the box, you know, not just, oh, well, you need this. So, you know, what can we do to make that happen? And even when it comes down to sort of looking at your numbers and things, rather than like before, where I just accept that that's what I've earned, you know, instead I need to go, well, what can I do to bring that up a bit?

Because I'm not going to hit it, you know, advertise for more teeth cleans, whatever it is, you know, don't just go running. More dogs. I need more dogs, you know, so, yeah, definitely more proactive.

I do a thing now as well where I pick a thing that I'm gonna save for, that I need that I would never have been able to buy before. Silly things, washing machines, fridge freezers, stupid things like that. But I pick one thing that I'm gonna save for and I just keep putting it in and then I can buy it. And it's so amazing that I think I, you know, before I just thought, well, you can't afford to buy these things. Well, no, nobody can. If nobody's going to just fork out 300 pound one day because they want a new fridge freezer.

You have to learn and teach yourself to save for these things. And then they just magically happen, you. Know, and we have. We have a little giggle, don't we? Because you said to me the other day that washing machine and fridge freezer was on your. On your vision board. And believe me, Phoebe, like, the day is coming where things like that are gonna move off your vision board and then the nicer, you know, maybe the, the holidays or, you know, taking Sophia on a nice summer break or something like that will then start coming into your, into your vision board or, you know, taking your horse off to the beach and stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah. Well, this is it, isn't it? You know, I'm ticking off all the silly little things quickly now, but before, I would have spent years being like, I can't afford a fridge freezer, can't afford for a freezer. Now I'm like, tick, done. And it's so freeing. You know, I said to you before the call, I've just earned. I've just saved enough to pay off my overdraft that I've just been living in for five years or whatever it is, and poof, it's gone. And it isn't. It isn't just because I'm charging more.

There is obviously that factor, but it's also all the systems that are in place that people teach you. And I mean, there's other people on the program I know that go even further beyond me with things like doing trading or whatever, you know, isa's savings accounts. I think one of the first calls I was ever on with Fanny was about stocks and shares and ISAs, and it blew my mind a bit. I had no idea what she was talking about. But that's where you can take this, you know, um, and you don't need, you don't need to have the highest paying job in the world.

You can build on what you've got. And you just. Who would know that you'd get that out of a dog grooming business program? Like, I didn't, I didn't know that that's the sort of thing that would be covered, you know. Now one of the goals is. I always say that one of my goals is to help people control their finances rather than their finances control them, because it's very freeing. It's very like, gives you choice, gives you options, gives you the ability to be mobile in a way, like mobility within society.

Yeah. And has any of this started to rub off to, well, Sophia?

Not yet. Doesn't really talk to me. Well, she's 16 and she. 15. 16. The tom come?

No, not really. I mean, potentially, if she was a bit more involved. No, I think she probably sees that when she'd have maybe needed something or asked for something before, the answer was just, no, we can't afford that. Whereas she needs a new body protector for riding. She. She broke her collarbone twice last year. And so the one she's got now rubs on her collarbone, but they've come out with this new design that's adjustable, but of course, they're lots of money. And she was like, mom, I need this.

I need this. And, yeah, the answer a couple of years ago would have just been, I. Can'T afford it or put it on a credit card. Whereas. Yeah, or put it on a credit card, so I've got to buy it for her. Whereas now I say, okay, that'll be the thing I'm saving up for, and next month I'll get it for her, you know, so she probably is seeing things like that and changes around that. I think I'm very, very guilty, and I feel bad about it, especially because she was younger, you know, four years ago, of constantly saying, no, we can't afford it.

No, we can't afford it. And that sort of thing does rub off on children, doesn't it, as they go into adulthood. But she. She also did some work experience with me, and as anybody who's ever tried to do dog grooming says, that's a lot harder than I thought, you know, and then I've paid her for it. And, you know, she. She's at that age where if she spends it all, that's it. It's all gone. So, yeah, it's. It's good to teach her these things.

And maybe that's a good conversation to have her when you. When you find a day where she's like, okay, I think she's open to speaking to me. Sit, like, sit down or whilst walking the dog and stuff, and just so back, like, just say that, Sophia, like, you know, a few years ago, I used to say no to a lot of things that you asked, and there was a reason why I did that, you know, and explain and talk her through how you've changed your. Your money mindset, changed how you've.

How you've deal with money. Because she can learn from that, can't she? And, yeah, have a. As long as. I think as long as kids have an understanding as to why you're saying no. You know, it was too stressful at the time to explain, and she was too young then, but you can actually educate her a bit and say that this is why I said no. And as you grow up, as you become an adult, this would be a great way for you to start looking at your money.

Yeah. Yeah. I hope. I hope she knows, you know, because, I mean, trying to pay for the horse and things like that, like, there's a lot of people that would say, you can't afford that horse. You're right, I couldn't at the time. So I, I hope she appreciates that, you know, as a single parent I'm still able to give her that and how hard I work for to have these things. And she has said to me, you know, I know her dad's and his partner take on a lot of holidays, you know, they've probably gone two holidays abroad a year and she did say to me one day, she said, well there are two of them paying for the bills in that house, you know.

So she, she does know, you know or you know, when her dad bought a Porsche she was like, well maybe one day, you know. So yeah, I don't think she's completely dumb to it but who knows at 16 year olds, who knows? And again though, your thoughts and feelings around it, like how you said, you know, there's quite a bit of negativity around that saying I felt quite guilty, you know, and stuff around saying no, that's probably something to bring to one of Fanny's mindset calls because it'd be quite nice to start letting that sort of stuff go, wouldn't it?

Now you know, you understand why, you understand what was going on at the time. So it'd be quite nice to start leaving that behind.

Yeah, definitely, yeah. So, you know, we're not quite there yet. The light, there is light at the end of the tunnel with your, your like home finances but you've got a plan, you've got a way to pay off your debt and hopefully, well, like we discussed today about your overdraft, you're. You're going to cancel it. Yeah, you know and yeah, I have. To say this last price increase because when I first joined, I think I did one, I joined in the September and I did one in January which was like a emergency one.

It was a come on, you need to do this now.

And then I, I did one again in August, just gone and that was quite a big one. That was a come on, stop messing about now which is what the prices are now since I've done that, the, the light, everything seems to be going quite quickly now in terms of paying off debt and things like that. Even to the point where I said to you last night, I was like, what do I do when all the debt's gone? What do I do with this money? You know, because at the moment obviously all I'm doing is just trying to plow through this debt.

But yeah, since the last price increase it, the light is much brighter Things seem to be happening much quicker. All these things that I thought, oh, it's going to take me years to pay. All that off is taking months, you know, and mindset wise as well. I do still get a little bit nervous, but to an extent, I don't care as much as I used to. When people say no, I just say, okay, that's fine, because they're not the customer for me, because I don't have to groom every single dog anymore.

I had a lady yesterday who didn't ask me the price when she booked in, which perhaps that's her fault, perhaps it's mine for not spelling it out at the time. It was a telephone call. I was probably in the middle of grooming. I booked a dog's in and I'd left it and she turned up and she asked how much it would be. Two lasers, and it was £120. And I think she nearly fainted.

And last year, yes, as early as last year, that would have sent me into a complete and utter spin. I may have even offered her a discount. I may have even said, well, sorry about that, you know, I can do it for this instead. But I didn't. I just said, yep. But she was like, you know, didn't expect it to be that much. And I just said, okay, yeah, we're gonna do something.

So I think, you know, like, like you were saying, there is, there's a plan. There's a definite plan in place to, to get you where you want to be. And what do you do with all the money once you've paid off your debt. That's phase two, you know, that's. Yes, that's something that I say to you. Like, actually, that could be a bit more of a challenge than actually paying off debt. Because when you have debt, you have a target. You have things that you need to do so you can be motivated.

But once you move that definite, we need to then start working with you to see, right, what's the next. And that's where you go and revisit the lessons around investing and saving. And I imagine phase two will look something like dropping a day or something like that.

I mean, I'm already sort of. I've already thought outside the box around my working hours. Anyway, as you talked about on. Was it the last podcast or, you know, where I. I'm actually, I had a problem in the. It was dark. I still had horses to do after work. I still had dog, a dog to walk. I live in the asshole of nowhere with no street lights. How Can I make this work? How can I work my life around my business? Because I did feel a bit like, okay, great, I'm earning all this money, but I'm still tied to my business.

Nine to five, 30. And, you know, there was some brainstorming, wasn't there? And we thought about it and talked about it and I came up with essentially a split shift during winter. So that about 2 o' clock I essentially took an extended lunch break. I think two hours. I think at the moment it is, but I'm not sure that's enough to go and walk my dog, ride my horse, do my horse jobs while it's still daylight, but then go back to work and work a little bit later.

So I'm not. Because I was really anxious around, let them closing early so that I could do that because it would mean I'd do less dogs. So I had to then come up with something and think outside the box of, well, how can I still do all that while still earning the same amount of money? And it was either another price increase, which we're not yet, or, yeah, come up with something. And that's the beauty of it being your own business is we can do that because.

And, you know, we, we had that discussion and it was great that you're open. So this is the. The old Phoebe would have been like, right, this is what I'm doing. I'm giving up work and I'm going to do something completely different, jump into it, freak fair, still got debt, and then go, where's all my money gone? Yeah, because I, I literally did say that, didn't I? I was literally like, I'm going to shut the shop, I'm going to quit grooming because I can't. It's not flexible enough.

I can't have the salon, you know, because one of the things I, I wish I could do was groom from home. I can't. It's a rented property. I need to just let that go because that would have helped me. But then I thought, well, you can still have that effect if you like where you are. I'm lucky in a sense in that I'm not on a high street. I am on a small industrial estate. So people aren't going to necessarily be like, oh, she's sh. Which I suppose most people on a high street couldn't do.

But I'm still doing the same amount of dogs. And customers don't need to know necessarily that I'm off riding my horse in the middle of the day because I'll just offer them an appointment later in the day. And that then means I'm opening up to their availability as well. Because I've got a lot of people that potentially don't come to me because I don't work late nights, whereas on those nights I can. And I came out of it, I've done one of these days so far. And I went back to work in the afternoon feeling so much more refreshed, you know, because I'm fine.

First thing in the morning, I do my first dog and I'm like, by the third, I'm like, oh, I'm dead.

So having that little bit of a break to go off and, you know, it made my hobbies less of a chore as well, you know, because I was doing a whole day at work, five or six dogs, and then going, oh, still got to do all that, you know, and it stopped it being a fun thing, it stopped it being a hobby. Whereas I've actually made both things more positive. I've made work more positive because I'm re energized, I'm ready to go back. I'm like, right, let's do the afternoon then, as opposed to, oh, I still got two more to do, you know.

Yeah, that's. I think that's always the beauty. What we sort of think about business is there's no hard and fast rules. And I always say this to, to the members, don't I? You know, it's your business, it's your rules. We, we, we don't, we don't sort of say, you must, you should do this. It's like you could have you thought about, what do you think about? And, you know, being able to. I don't think we've talked about this yet. Being able to discuss it with all of these other groomers to see what they're doing and maybe that might work for you or, you know, because I think there was one lady, wasn't there, that decided she wanted to go swimming every morning.

So she made it so that she could do that, you know, and that's, that's the great thing about it. And hearing that somebody else has done it is so good knowing somebody else is in the same boat as you. Or you've got this idea but you're not sure, so you put it out to the floor and, you know, we've got the group chatting all the time, all these different things. Because I think grooming for most of us, or a lot of us, we are on our own.

Normally you might have staff, but essentially you're running Your business, you're grooming all day. It's really, really amazing to have somebody going, yeah, that's a good idea. I might try that. Or I do this. Why don't you try this?

And you've got all of these other members all in the same boat as you, all rooting for each other. Because I think a lot of.

Some. Places might have quite a lot of rivalry between groomers. You know, I know that the one in my local town, I don't talk to her, we don't speak at all. I've got another one that I do speak to, but. And I think it's quite isolating and we shouldn't be fighting against each other, we should be rooting for each other and cheering each other on and. Yeah, hearing all the different ideas that people have. Yeah, we had it yesterday, actually, the. We had a new member sign up in Essex and it was.

She's only 20 minutes from another member. And it was like, the other day, after our Monday morning call, they got together and did some practical training around teeth cleaning. You know, it's that community, isn't it? I spoke to Joe the other day, who does the swimming, and she's. She actually let her boundaries slip a bit and found herself working too much. She went and been. She went and binned or removed 20 clients from her diary the other day and said, no, I'm doing four days again. I've allowed it to.

It's crept. Her boundaries were like, ah. And she found herself being really, really quite stressed. And I was like, joe, you know what to do, you've done it before. And she came back to me later in the day. I went, right, I've done it. I've sacked 20 clients, I'm back down to four dogs a day, going swimming and learning what I want. Yeah, I loved it the other day. One of the newer members actually named me and said, I've learned so much from her. And that just made me feel so good because I feel like sometimes, you know, we're all in our own struggles, we're all in our own heads and I feel like sometimes you're on your own a bit.

And the fact that I've helped somebody else and somebody else has actually learned from something I've done is just amazing, you know, And I'm sure some. Someone listening to this will be like, oh, I really like that split shift idea, you know? Yeah, why can. I've got horses or I've got a dog. Everyone's got dogs that they need to walk and. And stuff, like that how would. How could I implement it? And the key to this, I suppose, also is take. We take some of the fear out of it, because you've got the tools that you need.

You understand your income, you understand your expenditure, you understand what you need. So you can physically, like, run the numbers and plan it out on a piece of paper and say, right, I need to do X, Y and Z to achieve B. Yeah, I mean, I'm. Not ready to do it yet, but if I decided 3 years ago pre Bill that I only wanted to work four days or whatever, I would be too scared to do it because I wouldn't run through the numbers and I just go, no, you can't afford to do it.

And I'd just make assumptions that I wouldn't be able to do it or I wouldn't put a plan in place to make sure I could do it. Whereas now I know if I want to do that, I need to go through and go, right, what do I need to earn? Still either earn the same or more, but work less and run all that through. Whereas before I would have just not done it because I'd have been too scared. Yeah, or you would have done it and gone into four days, but then do, like, 15 dogs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100. Yeah, I would have just done it and then gone. Now I've got no money or I've. Got to do thousands of dogs a day to. Yes. So what's. I don't know if the right question is like, what's your. What's your plans for the future? Because at the moment we're still in a kind of consolidation phase of life, aren't we, where you're. You're. I hope that your plans are to get rid of that debt so that you can really, like, be free.

Yeah, yeah. I think you said something last night because I asked the question of what am I working for once all the debt has paid, what do I do then? What am I working so hard for? And you just said, freedom. And I think that's it, isn't it? It's freedom to not go to work if you don't want to, work half a day if you want to.

So, yes, at the moment the focus is very much just getting through the debt and it really has been much easier than I thought. I'm using Fanny's Snowball spreadsheet.

I've cleared one, cleared the very account. That was about 900 quid, so that was great.

And I'm also working towards paying off the car quicker. And then I'VE got a plan in place where I'll keep it for a bit but put away the money I would have spent on it had I not and then I'll buy something outright, you know. So I've got quite a few plans in place to sort all this out and then yeah, I don't probably it will be dropping a day or doing some half days or something along those lines probably.

My question is you're a bit of a petrol head. Are you going to go back on and get a car and finance? No, no I'm not.

No I'm not. I've already got a list on auto trader of things but yes, no, the, the last car I bought is really boring for me anyway apart I only bought. I only bought it because the tax on it was free because I'd gone from the Audi that had really high tax, it was a three liter. I've got really lead foot. I also hit curbs and it just got too expensive and so the next car I bought I was like I want the cheapest to run you can get and so I bought the slowest, cheapest, no emissions I could.

But it is a bit boring for me. I like to look at it but it's a bit boring And I've also. The check engine light is on because it's the low powered diesel. I'm only doing very short journeys to the yard and then to work and it's literally three villages so I'm kind. Of ruining needs to run it down a motorway, clear out the dp. There are no motorways, not going anywhere. But yes, I've done a regen and it hasn't worked so the next car will probably have to be a petrol I think probably you got your list.

You'Re working towards your. Working towards your list. Yes, excellent. I think it's a jimney. I think if I don't know how the question like what's the. It might be a hard question what's the biggest thing that you've learned or taken away from being part of the the pep guru business program?

Fear doesn't get you anywhere I think is probably the biggest thing. Being scared to put your prices up, being scared to talk to customers, being scared to think outside the box will only keep you where you are now. The only way I've moved forward is, is, I mean obviously I've got the knowledge but the knowledge is backed up the backs up than not being scared because if you've got the knowledge, you know you use this a lot but until you do it you don't know what you don't know.

And just being scared and trapped in the same cycle, which is exactly what I was. I was just in the same cycle with no way to get out of it.

And being scared to change will mean you will stay where you are and that's not enough. So. Yeah.

I often wonder, I often think I wish I could have like Phoebe without the program and Phoebe with the program to actually see what the last two years would have been like for you. Take two of me. God.

And how your life, how, how life would have been so much different potentially. We will never, we will never know. I, I think I probably would have hired staff and done more dogs rather than. Because I wouldn't have had a choice but to make more money because I had to, you know, I had to pay for my house, I had to pay for whatever. But I, I wouldn't. I think my knee jerk reaction would be, well, you just need to do more dogs. And the only way you're going to do that is by hiring staff, which for some people is the right decision.

For me it's not, you know, I, I don't want to be paying someone else's wages while I'm still sort of in the trenches myself.

Yeah. And I think that's what no program Phoebe would have done and potentially like. On some kind of like debt repayment thing. Yeah, probably, yeah. Bankrupt, bankruptcy. I don't know. I have to be fair. I've looked into again, pre program. I've looked into things like IVAs and debt management programs. A lot of them won't touch you while you're self employed. Right. I don't know the ins and outs, but Citizens Advice Bureau wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't take it any further. I don't know if it's because you don't have a set wage or if it's because you can hide.

You don't have to declare everything you earn. So they, you know, I, I don't know, but they wouldn't, they wouldn't talk to me. So again, another reason why I have no choice but to just sort it out. You know, my partner is very much a get rich quick kind of guy and I keep trying to tell him there is no quick way. You just have to work on it. There is no side hustle, There is no selling your soul. There's. You just have to just work and save and do things properly and think.

Yeah. And we've got a, hopefully we've got a podcast coming up with Fanny Snaith. Because about this. Because wealth creation is different to getting rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No amount of drop shipping, no amount of anything is, is going to make you rich. It will give you some disposable cash maybe, but there's a diff. Like you say, there's a difference between being cash rich and wealthy. Yeah. There's a mindset. There's a mindset switch there. Because I have a feeling. I don't really know Martin that well, but I have a feeling that there's the.

No matter how much money will be in that bank account, the mindset is not enough. And that's what needs switching. And he would spend it before, you know anything.

The amount of times he's gone, can we have this? Can we have this? Can we have this? And I've gone, no. And he goes, but you've got money. Yeah, but I'm not spending it on that. Whatever it is. It's normally a car.

Hopefully it will start. Things will start to rub off on him as well.

Let them. Literally. Yeah. Him get on with it.

Well, thank you so much for your openness and your honesty and you know, taking us through your, through your journey. It's been, you know, it's been a good couple of years watching you sort of change things for the better and, and work on your work on your business, but also work on your work on yourself. A lot of self development going on there. Thank you and thank you for sharing it with the listeners. It's been brilliant. Thank you. And maybe we'll catch up in perhaps a year's time and do another one of these to see what the other the new Phoebe is doing with her newfound wealth.

Probably buying more horses.

Excellent. Thanks a lot and take care. Thank you. Thanks. Bye. I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. Please make sure you give us a like or a review to help people find it. The podcast is. Is sponsored by Low Pay. Head over to www.lowpay.com to find out more about their payment SOL.